A-G target acquisition / pinpointing ground targets

[Kukailimoku]

Can the locations of ground target in general, and SAM sites in particular be “wrong”? When in the mission screen (campaign, single player) and I “Recon” a target (SA2 site) and assign the launchers individually to target steerpoints 15 through 20, and when I go fly the mission sometimes the enemy hardware is where the recon said (i.e. where SPs 15-20 guide me to) but many times there is nothing at those steerpoints.

Can the lat/lon learned from right-click->“Recon” be not 100% accurate? Is there a fog-of-war type of uncertainty modeled in BMS? Or is the fact that sometimes the enemy hardware not where the Recon SP intend them to be mean that I somehow screwed up the process of manipulating the map, Recon, DTC clear/load/save functions?

[Flow32]

Have you saved the datacard after assigning the steerpoints ?

[LorikEolmin]

Concerning SA2, SA3, SA5, the vehicles can’t move.

[Easy]

@Kukailimoku:

Can the locations of ground target in general, and SAM sites in particular be “wrong”? When in the mission screen (campaign, single player) and I “Recon” a target (SA2 site) and assign the launchers individually to target steerpoints 15 through 20, and when I go fly the mission sometimes the enemy hardware is where the recon said (i.e. where SPs 15-20 guide me to) but many times there is nothing at those steerpoints.

Can the lat/lon learned from right-click->“Recon” be not 100% accurate? Is there a fog-of-war type of uncertainty modeled in BMS? Or is the fact that sometimes the enemy hardware not where the Recon SP intend them to be mean that I somehow screwed up the process of manipulating the map, Recon, DTC clear/load/save functions?

If you’re doing a campaign, there is a small chance that some AI package is ingressing to strike the exact same SAM site (if you planned the mission yourself)… Other than that, the coordinates should be accurate, or the bothans would’ve died for nothing. How are you checking that nothing is there?

[Eagle-Eye]

Coordinates extracted from the Recon screen are always 100% correct. If the units are not mobile (which the SA-2, -3 and -5 aren’t), they will be right there when you arrive, unless - as Twan said - somebody else destroyed them before you.

The most likely reason why you are unable to find the targets, however, is that during ingress, you (accidentally) move the cursor away from its original location, creating a SPI Delta. In the right bottom corner of your MFD, you will see a button called CZ. If this is highlighted, it means your cursor is not on the original location. Going back to that original location, the coordinates your pre-planned, is simple: press the CZ-button to set the cursor values back to a Delta of 0 (hence the name, Cursor Zero).

From the BMS TO-BMS1F-16CM-1.pdf, page 97:

OSB #9 is CZ for Cursor ZERO. In BMS 4.33 slewing your ground cursor position (System Point of Interest or SPI) will effectively slew your current steerpoint by adding a system delta to all steerpoints. CZ will zero out or erase any previously created system deltas and so will return all STPTs to their original position and will naturally return SPI position to the current STPT position. The CZ mnemonic will be highlighted in aircraft with the Nav EGI upgrade if a system delta exists (i.e. SPI slew).

Pilots should use the following routine to revert the system solution back to the original navigation solution: TMS down - Cursor Zero - Wide Field of View (OSB#3). This habit should be developed after each cursor slew phase and at each IP if cursor slews have been made.

Please see the chapter on SPI Management in the TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1 for more details.

[MorteSil]

This post is deleted!

[Kukailimoku]

@LorikEolmin:

Concerning SA2, SA3, SA5, the vehicles can’t move.

Right. But could the intel as to their exact location be wrong/off?

[Kukailimoku]

@Flow32:

Have you saved the datacard after assigning the steerpoints ?

That is an excellent question. I THINK so. I “save” the campaign itself, the DTC, pretty much every time I click a change, not sure if I saved the Datacard tho. (I presume you mean the Datacard in WDP and not the DTC inside BMS?)

[LorikEolmin]

In BMS. DTC floating window, Save on the right.

[Kukailimoku]

@Kukailimoku:

Can the locations of ground target in general, and SAM sites in particular be “wrong”? When in the mission screen (campaign, single player) and I “Recon” a target (SA2 site) and assign the launchers individually to target steerpoints 15 through 20, and when I go fly the mission sometimes the enemy hardware is where the recon said (i.e. where SPs 15-20 guide me to) but many times there is nothing at those steerpoints.

Can the lat/lon learned from right-click->“Recon” be not 100% accurate? Is there a fog-of-war type of uncertainty modeled in BMS? Or is the fact that sometimes the enemy hardware not where the Recon SP intend them to be mean that I somehow screwed up the process of manipulating the map, Recon, DTC clear/load/save functions?

I recent example:

I’ve been re-flying (deleting all the saved, to include “auto-save”, and starting all over from get-go) a particular DEAD mission in campaign, Korea, Rolling Thunder (I think). In my experience say, 12-13 times so far, there is always generated a first-day, early-morning mission against the 203rd AD Bn, just south of Kaesong(?). Just north of the DMZ. I keep re-starting over because i keep dorking it up and want to repeat the same variables until I learn how to move mud correctly before continuing a campaign. Anyways, on a couple of tries I don’t find any launchers at the target steer-points, and on two missions the target steer-points actually were in downtown Kaesong(?), that city just north of where the nominal 203rd is supposed to be.

Do new campaigns generate new seeding of enemy dispositions, or does my steer-points being inconsistent between re-flies mean I’m messing up the targeting SP process?

The answer will help me narrow down if I am doing it right but the intel/recon was wrong (which could happen IRL - IDK if the game replicates that), or if the 203rd AD bn is always in the exact same spot no matter how many new Campaigns are generated and I’m not consistent in my targeting.

[Flow32]

No I mean inside BMS.
Open the data card editor (where you change your radio frequencies for instance), check if your steerpoints have been correctly assigned (which you can see with the text displayed) and clic save.

[Kukailimoku]

@TwanV:

… or the bothans would’ve died for nothing…

LOL! Witty. I like that.

@TwanV:

… How are you checking that nothing is there?

Well, there’s nothing co-located to the SP on the FCR (yes, ground mode, yes ODB2 zoom). Then there’s nothing on the TGP (neither Bhot, Whot, nor TV). Then, I overfly the spot and go outside view (“0”)-pause-rotate view and look around (I know that’s “cheating”) and dont see anything but grass. Which is surprising because I thought after their last famine the NoKo people ate all the grass and pine bark. Should be just bare dirt there…AND some launchers.

[Quasi_Stellar]

Have you checked to see if CZ is highlighted… If it is, then you are moving the A-G FCR/TGP on purpose or through some stutter through your controls… When you select your target steer, the delta is applied and you’ll be looking some distance away from where you want to be. If this isn’t what is going on, then I don’t know what to tell you…

[yubba]

Is there a shortcut between CCRP and CCIP,??? Being that the Korean theater dictates low level bombing to avoid sams, I do hunt targets of opportunity by locking them up with radar, in ccrp you have a nice little target cue box to line up on not so with ccip, even switching to ccip also changes the radar so I’m blind at the most unopportune time

[Agave_Blue]

Missile Step. Get 'em all lined up in CCRP …. with the TD box (or whatever it’s called) … once visual on your CCIP run, Missile Step to CCIP … put the thing on the thing and hit pickle.

[yubba]

@Agave_Blue:

Missile Step. Get 'em all lined up in CCRP …. with the TD box (or whatever it’s called) … once visual on your CCIP run, Missile Step to CCIP … put the thing on the thing and hit pickle.

yeah, I’d like to have that do hicky target box out there when using those rocket pod thingys that would be nice

[Agave_Blue]

@yubba:

yeah, I’d like to have that do hicky target box out there when using those rocket pod thingys that would be nice

Rockets are slightly different question, as would be gun strafing. But as you indicated ‘low level bombing’, missile step is the way to go. Stay CCRP until you visually acquire the target(s), missile step to CCIP …. which is a visual mode, btw … meaning the radar change should be inconsequential. Once off, missile step back to CCRP for additional runsa and/or additional target acquisition.

[yubba]

@Agave_Blue:

Rockets are slightly different question, as would be gun strafing. But as you indicated ‘low level bombing’, missile step is the way to go. Stay CCRP until you visually acquire the target(s), missile step to CCIP …. which is a visual mode, btw … meaning the radar change should be inconsequential. Once off, missile step back to CCRP for additional runsa and/or additional target acquisition.

That brings me back to my original question is there a shortcut from CCRP and CCIP instead of going through MFD menu some time stuff happens quickly at near supersonic speed, I’ve gotten good results with the F-105D,

[Flow32]

@yubba:

That brings me back to my original question is there a shortcut from CCRP and CCIP instead of going through MFD menu some time stuff happens quickly at near supersonic speed, I’ve gotten good results with the F-105D,

NWS/MSL STEP like someone answered above already

[Agave_Blue]

Here’s an example starting at 4:05 …. low level ingress, to coordinated pop-up, moving from CCRP to CCIP using Missile Step: