Weapons specialists needed => BLU-109
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Hi guys!
There is an eternal debate rising up again and since we are some difficulties to find real clues, I wonder if some people here could help us to get more factual and solid information about the BLU-109.
In two words …
Is the BLU-109 a bomb, or only a warhead systematically used with a guidance kit?
BLU-109/B is the designation of the warhead.
Some source we have found mentions that the BLU-109 (/B?) can be used unguided and is present in some old weapon conventional load designations as “B109 BLU 109 2000lb Penetrator F16, B1, F15E, B52, F/A18, B2” into the Table A1.1. List of SCL Components of the PACAF STANDARD CONVENTIONAL LOADS - PACAF Instruction 21-202.pdf present in BMS Docs folder.
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Information I personally had from some professional of the is that the BLU-109 (warhead) can be technically assembled with the classic Mk-84 fins kit and some
to use it as dumb bomb.
It seems that configuration has been employed during Desert storm but with some very bad and lots of issues (collateral damages and un-exploded munitions which were captured by Iraqi forces) and this, would be because of the tendency of this unguided munition to bounce when penetration angle is not optimal … (too hard surface/shallow angle).https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/blu-109-specs.htm
When the bomb bounces, the lack or energy may fails to activate the tail fuze and the bomb do not explode or only partially with bad flame propagation inside the core. Fuse and explosive can then be sometimes reused in some cases by enemy.
Un-exploded munitions:
http://www.newweapons.org/filestore/william-september-2006-Lebanon.pdf
Other issue is about the fact that, due the reinforced “nose” the bomb can bounce on a very long distance and can cause heavy collateral damages by exploding further away from the DMPI. (more or less the same issue than with GBU-24)
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Since then and for those reasons, the BLU-109 is “always” use with guidance kit (PIII or JDAM).
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It is not every days we are asking you friends for contribution … but to make a decision of re-introducing the BLU-109 as a dumb bomb, we need more solid clues than two contradictory lines on a websites.
Question is not IF or IF NOT it should be added in the sim (this is up to us) and thisis not a poll … Question is: Is that configuration exisgint in foces, allowed and efficient?
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I am not a weapon specialist, but this is what i foound, because i asked myself the same question a while ago.
Looking up on https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/blu-109.htm …
Thank you but we have this already and posted just above.
Please don’t guess and lets ppl in the knows giving a possible answer.
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DJ, just suggestion - isn’t it better to ask on F-16.net? They’ve got a lot of expertise there.
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According to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb and this https://web.archive.org/web/20110525133718/http://www.hill.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=5752 its both
I am not specialist though i think according the situation you can use it like a bomb or as guided bomb so basicly must be a bomb
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Guys stop posting, else all you are going to get is sarcasm. The fact that you ask about a weapon specialist advise on a public forum and then being sarcastic when other people answer is not nice at all.
Really that surprises me. If you want a true weapon specialist input then post your question on a specialised forum.
Your attitude is really surprising.
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I might know a guy that knows a guy. Will ask around and get back asap. :bolt:
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Guys stop posting, else all you are going to get is sarcasm. The fact that you ask about a weapon specialist advise on a public forum and then being sarcastic when other people answer is not nice at all.
Really that surprises me. If you want a true weapon specialist input then post your question on a specialised forum.
Your attitude is really surprising.
Sorry if is sounded like a sarcasm, be sure it wasn’t.
@Canuck:Guys stop posting, else all you are going to get is sarcasm
^This is sarcasm.
The link you have posted has been posted on #1.
I am just trying to save some dev time here by asking for factual answers, not chitchatting endlessly about things we already knows/have (sorry, but I also searched on google during hours before coming here for month) … I know that we have here some ppl working on F-16 or other a/c, so I rather ask for their inputs.
If it is pissing off some ppl here, okay, it will be the last time I ask some help … but do not complain if we are doing everything on our side and then are so called “elitist” or “closed group”.
EDIT: Thank you for your attempt to help anyway. This is not sarcastic, I truly thank you for taking some time to search!
@NIL:
I might know a guy that knows a guy. Will ask around and get back asap.
… this is indeed what I need! Thank you!
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Was just trying to help even if i am.not a specialist. But i understand.
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Was just trying to help even if i am.not a specialist. But i understand.
Appreciated. And again … my intention wasn’t to be sarcastic please believe me.
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Appreciated. And again … my intention wasn’t to be sarcastic please believe me.
I believe you :)., it is all good Dee-Jay
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It’s a bomb.
It can technically also be put together as a GBU-10:
http://bulletpicker.com/guided_-gbu-10g_b_-gbu-1.htmlIt can/could be put together as an unguided bomb. I have no idea why you would want to do that though as the very nature of its target requires high precision. Would only expect to see it as a GBU-31v3 nowadays, maybe sporadically as a 24.
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It can/could be put together as an unguided bomb. I have no idea why you would want to do that though as the very nature of its target requires high precision.
I know and agree.
But some ppl want it unguided (old fashion pop-up strikes).
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Blu- 109/B always guided, blu-109 its a bomb
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/blu-109.htmThe BLU-109/B (I-2000) is an improved 2,000-pound-class bomb designed as a penetrator without a forward fuze well. Its configuration is relatively slim, and its skin is much harder than that of the standard MK-84 bomb. The skin is a single-piece, forged warhead casing of one-inch, high-grade steel. Its usual tail fuze is a mechanical-electrical FMU-143. The 1,925-pound bomb has a 550-pound tritonal high-explosive blast warhead. The BLU-109/B was always mated with a laser guidance kit to form a laser-guided bomb
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The BLU-109 is a warhead, which when built up in a particular configuration becomes an end-item munition. The BLU-109 is a hard target penetrator version of the Mk84 warhead.
I’m pretty sure that the BLU-109 was developed by the USN and that unit is thermally protected - the BLU-109/B for the USAF is not. It is not always guided - they can be fit for free fall release, and I recall the USN retaining these configurations. In general they can be fit with any nose/tail kit that a MK84 can.
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It’s a bomb.
It can technically also be put together as a GBU-10:
http://bulletpicker.com/guided_-gbu-10g_b_-gbu-1.htmlIt can/could be put together as an unguided bomb. I have no idea why you would want to do that though as the very nature of its target requires high precision. Would only expect to see it as a GBU-31v3 nowadays, maybe sporadically as a 24.
You would do this if you run out of guidance kits.
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I see nothing in current docs that I have access to that have it referenced to anything other than in a GBU configuration for use (see -10, -27, -31, etc).
From what I understand, the heavy weight GBU types require some additional weaponeering by the pilot over just hammering the pickel button, assumption only, but probably could have to do with the attack profile and limitations that you are memtioning.
Doesn’t mean it hasnt been flight tested of course and “could” be authorized in a contingency.
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I’m pretty sure that the BLU-109 was developed by the USN and that unit is thermally protected - the BLU-109/B for the USAF is not.
The BLU-109A/B differs from the BLU-109/B in the type of explosive filler, the addition of an externally installed hardback, and the application of an ablative (heat dissipating) thermal insulation coating to the exterior of the bomb body.
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The BLU-109A/B is externally covered with an ablative thermal insulation coating (AVCOFM26(NA)) to delay fast cook-off, high temperature reaction time.
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The BLU-109/B is painted olive drab. The BLU-109A/B bomb is initially painted with a blue primer. A gray ablative coating is applied over the blue primer.So the A/B is the “USN” version of the /B …