BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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The F18E spin testing went well. So, the F18e_afm (ver. 7.16.21) is now in the Files
thanks, i will try tonight
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AFM seems good, just one more little bug, we can’t land hehe, landing gear seems to be a little retracted, when touch down the airplane explodes
EDIT: we can landing but at 175-180 knots
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AFM seems good, just one more little bug, we can’t land hehe, landing gear seems to be a little retracted, when touch down the airplane explodes
EDIT: we can landing but at 175-180 knots
Hi, Seb, Just to follow up from you Discord conversation, was this landing issue seen before or after your work with fuel flows? I’m trying to repro, but I’m seeing this at all in the Rhino, in several theaters. That is in carrier landings. Just a thought, but have you tried landing at different bases.
All, What Seb has described is that it looks like his gear is semi-retracted upon landing, and his jet blows up when he does.
Also, if anyone else wants to join the fun of “The Hunt for the Perfect Rhino” (;) ), I put the F18E Performance NATOPS in the Mafia Files. It’s the F18-EF-200 pdf -
Hi, Seb, Just to follow up from you Discord conversation, was this landing issue seen before or after your work with fuel flows? I’m trying to repro, but I’m seeing this at all in the Rhino, in several theaters. That is in carrier landings. Just a thought, but have you tried landing at different bases.
All, What Seb has described is that it looks like his gear is semi-retracted upon landing, and his jet blows up when he does.
Also, if anyone else wants to join the fun of “The Hunt for the Perfect Rhino” (;) ), I put the F18E Performance NATOPS in the Mafia Files. It’s the F18-EF-200 pdfthe problem persist with stock or modded files, Eddie is working on Rhino Fuel flow tables but with no luck until now, that means i’m not using rhino with fuel flow tables because the sim crash
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the problem persist with stock or modded files, Eddie is working on Rhino Fuel flow tables but with no luck until now, that means i’m not using rhino with fuel flow tables because the sim crash
Hi, Seb,
We’re still unable to repro what you’re seeing, and we are using the current acdatas( as are now in the Files) with the Hornet FLCS and fuel tables. Also, Mp MP Gang is flying the Rhino most of the time, and he lands at airbases, with no issues what so ever.
Thinking of you, I specifically asked my Bud how he lands the Rhino. He says, touch down around 160 CAS, and NOT at high GWT. The RL F-18 has landing weight restrictions, and it looks like ours does , too. I’m also told that you can aerobrake the Rhino, but don’t use airbrakes while doing so(it seems to slam the nose wheel down) .
Another source tells me that in the RL jet don’t use wheelbrakes above 115 CAS. -
Hi, Seb,
We’re still unable to repro what you’re seeing, and we are using the current acdatas( as are now in the Files) with the Hornet FLCS and fuel tables. Also, Mp MP Gang is flying the Rhino most of the time, and he lands at airbases, with no issues what so ever.
Thinking of you, I specifically asked my Bud how he lands the Rhino. He says, touch down around 160 CAS, and NOT at high GWT. The RL F-18 has landing weight restrictions, and it looks like ours does , too. I’m also told that you can aerobrake the Rhino, but don’t use airbrakes while doing so(it seems to slam the nose wheel down) .
Another source tells me that in the RL jet don’t use wheelbrakes above 115 CAS.eddie fixed hitbox and fuel flow tables, thanks anyway
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eddie fixed hitbox and fuel flow tables, thanks anyway
The changes you mention are included in the latest .dats in the Mafia Files.
All, we are also working on further upgrades to deal with the formation lights, AAR probe, and launch bar visualizations. In external view, the lights are still somewhat a WIP, but the probe and L.bar are modeling. The cockpit view of these things is next. -
Good Day, All,
We had gotten some requests to put the Mafia Files on to Github. Attached is the link for the first attempt. https://github.com/drtbkj/Joe-Steidl-BMS-Mafia-Files-20210727-1b92 -
Good Day, All,
We had gotten some requests to put the Mafia Files on to Github. Attached is the link for the first attempt. https://github.com/drtbkj/Joe-Steidl-BMS-Mafia-Files-20210727-1b92Joe - I get a 404 Not found error on that link, even if i’m (member) signed into GitHub…
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Joe - I get a 404 Not found error on that link, even if i’m (member) signed into GitHub…
Thx, Icer, GH is still a WIP for me, and I plan to work on it today. I have all the Mafia Files on GH, just have to work the bugs out When I click on the link in my previous post, I go right to the Files
https://github.com/drtbkj/Joe-Steidl-BMS-Mafia-Files-20210727-1b92
Try it now, GH defaulted to "private " in Settings -
As mentioned previously, we have been working on the Rhino/Growler flight model, and at the same defining procedures. Kind of a BATOPS ( Bms Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardization) . So, we have been testing both take off and landing procedures. We’ve been determining what works in BMS, while trying to be as real life as possible. We hope, as we develop procedures, to be as RL as we can.Here are some notes…
A) Ground based takeoff at 60k plus GWT- 1) with half flaps, no take off trim- rotate at 200 knots
2) half flaps with take off trim- the jet flies itself off the runway
B) Ground based landing at the max landing weight of approx. 41K- the cleanest landings I’ve gotten are with airbrakes out, get the indexer on-speed “donut” , put the fpm/vv on the end of the runway, and fly it in at 140-160 kt… After touchdown , I held the 8 deg up to aerobrake ( and next time I’m going to try 10 deg.) Let the nose come down at 100 knot or so and go easy on the wheelbrakes. .We are looking at the flight model to check if the wheel brakes are perhaps too strong. Meanwhile, the best approach is to “pump them” . -
Thx, Icer, GH is still a WIP for me, and I plan to work on it today. I have all the Mafia Files on GH, just have to work the bugs out When I click on the link in my previous post, I go right to the Files
https://github.com/drtbkj/Joe-Steidl-BMS-Mafia-Files-20210727-1b92
Try it now, GH defaulted to "private " in SettingsOK, PM’d…
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OK, PM’d…
Thx, Icer, and for the pm, too.
All,
We’ll sort this out, plus are working on reorganizing it. For now, GH is down. However, the Mediafile Files will stay available until GH is fully functional. -
In looking back I found this post plus the reply of Honorary Mafia Brother Stevie.
What I had written was…“The RL procedure I found is to launch, retake control of the stick(normal procedure is hands-off on the CAT[don’t forget flaps and takeoff trim!]), do a 50 ft. clearance turn(to starboard off the bow Cat’s, and to port off the waist) , climb to 500 ft., and proceed on the departure heading out to 10 miles. At that Ten Mile Radial, you turn port or starboard to intersect with your departure course to WPT 2, holding 10 miles from the carrier…
In BMS the waist Cats are not active, and human pilots can only launch off Cat 2( the port bow Cat). Also, the AI wingie tends to hold 'burner longer, go above and to port of you, and at 2 miles turns to port. So, the option I’m doing is to do my right clearance turn, hold MIL and 500 ft to 2 miles, then arch to port no matter what my departure course is, climbing to the BMS Bug “standard” 26k cruise altitude… Launching with TCN on the “MPCD” (lower MFD) is very helpful in determining distance to carrier.”
To which Stevie wrote…"It really depends on which Cat you are coming off of, I think - there are two Cats on the bow, and if you are coming off the starboard one you should clear to starboard, if you are coming off the port one you should clear to port - object being not to cross a departing jet’s flight path or block the SAR in the event of a cold shot off either bow Cat and someone going into the water. Nimitz Class CVNs actually have four Cats - two at the bow, and two at the waist. Unsure as to how they sequence them, but the deck op-tempo is very quick…
In RL, they don’t wait until the “deck is coming up” to do a launch - I know plenty of guys that have been fired on the down pitch…and I’ve been fired on the down in the Trainer as well myself! It’s all about timing and tempo - when it’s time for you to go, they send you.
Yes - all Hornet CV launches are done hands off, and the jet will automatically capture AOA…in theory - just setting TO Trim isn’t the end all. You also need to adjust Trim for your ordnance load, fuel state, and wind over deck; i.e. your takeoff GWT / CG and any adjustment due to what the Cat may (or may not…) be delivering that day. One of the biggest differences between operating a Viper and any Navy aircraft is how much your GWT factors into operations…from what I can tell BMS Viper ops pretty much ignore this, but in Naval ops GWT considerations are a matter of survival. Same for landing - the wire can only trap so many Klbs before it breaks…and also only so many times.
Post launch holding and entry should be established and assigned to marshal for refuel/push."Given our current Rhino/Growler flight testing it seems timely to share somethings we’ve learned…
We’ve found , in Multiplayer at least, that humans can use Cat 1( the starboard forward one). The waist Cat’s are not active in SP or MP
In BMS at least, it does launch you as the deck is coming up
I didn’t fully realize it at the time, but Stevie was spot on his takeoff/landing,trim,GWT comments. Yes, with takeoff trim and full flaps(carrier) or half flaps (ground launch) take off is hands free. But, time has really proven the comments about trim/GWT, when operating off land or ship. In the Rhino, when at a takeoff weight of 60K plus, full takeoff trim is needed. I extract trim panels with MFDE, but if you don’t have that hold the TOT button for a 4-count. But, we have noticed in testing that at light loads the jet wants to snap it’s nose up with full TO trim. So, in BMS the trim/GWT relationship is there.
GWT is also absolutely curtail in landing on land or Boat. You do not want to be above the max (rl and BMS) recovery weight of 43K. -
Good Day, All,
Here’s an update…
First, good news for those who have requested we put the Mafia Files on Github or something like it. We now have a new Mafia Brother who is setting Github up , as we speak. We should have something out soon. Along the same lines, Brother Smartaxe and I were just talking, and I think we are going to reformat the Mediafile Files to the GH format. We may keep MF and GH up, at least for the short term.
Secondly, an old friend and former MP Bud is back into BMS. The good news for you is that he knows a lot about the rl Rhino flight model. So, hopefully he can help us with a couple of things we’re still working on.
Thirdly, Dardo has made an EF-18M “version 4”. They are now in the Mafia Files -
Great to be back, and I look forward to good times with the Fighter Mafia!
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@TGW:
Great to be back, and I look forward to good times with the Fighter Mafia!
You are indeed welcome back
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As mentioned previously, we have been working on the Rhino/Growler flight model, and at the same defining procedures.
[…]Sorry for not following this thread closely, but did you manage to find a reference for the FM and FLCS?
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did you manage to find a reference for the FM and FLCS?
Hi, Tumbler, Yes we have.
In fact, since I haven’t put in an update for a few days, and without getting carried away ….- We are working on truly refined flight models for the Rhino and Growler, plus further work on the Hornet and EF-18M. This is a “3-4 Mafia Week” type thing, but we are hopeful. For that reason we have decided to not “spin our wheels” on constantly “retweaking” the Rhino’s acdata files. The “RC2” version of the f18e.dat and f18e_afm.dat, now in the Mediafile Mafia Files ( in both the “1958” and “4.35 acdata” folders) are what we’re going with for now.
- For those who have requested the Mafia Files be put into a Github-type format, I’ll just say we’re close. Let’s call that “1-2 Mafia Weeks”
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Coming to ‘a theatre’ near you . . .