F16 Brakes at 4 35
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As we’re on the topic of braking:
I’m using the “poor man’s rudder” function on my T500RS racing wheel pedals to steer the jet on the ground. I wonder if the axis could be mapped to “braking” instead with weight on wheels so one could brake differentially and / or steer the jet on the ground at the same time? Say both pedals are pressed -> act as differential brakes; only a single pedal pressed: Use the axis as NWS steering input. In the air without WOW, use the combined virtual rudder axis normally as rudder input.
Failing that, would it be possible to use the pedal’s brake axis for (obviously non-differential) brake input? Right now only the throttle and clutch pedals are used for “poor man’s rudder” with the brake axis going unused.
All the best,
uwe
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Yeah it’s quite noticeable, in particular for low speeds, no more racing to parking. For my understanding, (I lack fancy rudder pedals) the manual speaks about anti skid behavior as function of the amount of toebrake applied:
Is the K-key the same as applying max performance skid control,I.e. 100% applied braking ?
K applies maximum brake performance but progressively
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As we’re on the topic of braking:
I’m using the “poor man’s rudder” function on my T500RS racing wheel pedals to steer the jet on the ground. I wonder if the axis could be mapped to “braking” instead with weight on wheels so one could brake differentially and / or steer the jet on the ground at the same time? Say both pedals are pressed -> act as differential brakes; only a single pedal pressed: Use the axis as NWS steering input. In the air without WOW, use the combined virtual rudder axis normally as rudder input.
Failing that, would it be possible to use the pedal’s brake axis for (obviously non-differential) brake input? Right now only the throttle and clutch pedals are used for “poor man’s rudder” with the brake axis going unused.
All the best,
uwe
It should be possible with Joystick Gremlin.
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I always thought that ABS prevents the wheels from locking up and has no affect on stopping distances on wet or dry surfaces… only the type of brakes for disc or drum braking affects that in regards to your speeds.
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I always thought that ABS prevents the wheels from locking up and has no affect on stopping distances on wet or dry surfaces… only the type of brakes for disc or drum braking affects that in regards to your speeds.
Preventing the wheels from locking up drastically affects stopping distance on all surfaces.
Without ABS, it is not possible to maintain maximum braking effort over any useful duration. Professional drivers could maintain close to maximum braking effort with skill. Just planting your foot would make the wheels lock up, drastically decreasing braking effort and increasing stopping distance. Failing to apply sufficient pressure on the pedal also decreases braking effort, again increasing the stopping distance. A professional driver could maintain close to maximum braking effort by knowing how much pressure they can apply without causing the wheels to lock, gained from much experience.
ABS allows the computer to detect the onset of lockup, before wheel lock occurs, and decrease brake pressure accordingly. You get the maximum possible braking effort, and all you have to do is plant your foot. More brake pressure would lead to the wheels locking, decreasing braking effort. Less brake pressure would be also less braking effort.
Comparing ABS with no ABS, ABS decreases stopping distance. For professional drivers, ABS decreases stopping distance somewhat. For everyone else, ABS decreases stopping distance significantly.
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Not sure it is implemented but catching the 1st wire is not what you are supposed to do. It is not the same as in a carrier and catching the wire above a given energy may destroy the cable and/or the hook.
Land normally, aiming the threshold to maximize the LDA, perform optimal aerobraking until 100Kts, then drop the nose, ensure then points contact and lower the hook soon enough before reaching the last wire to catch it a slow as possible.In the -1 it mentions in chapter 3.8.7 to land >500ft before the arresting system to ensure the NWS is down. I took it as must as the geometry of the hook on the plane might be just like that (you may need a “levelled” plane for the hook to catch the wire). Can someone confirm pls?
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Preventing the wheels from locking up drastically affects stopping distance on all surfaces.
Without ABS, it is not possible to maintain maximum braking effort over any useful duration. Professional drivers could maintain close to maximum braking effort with skill. Just planting your foot would make the wheels lock up, drastically decreasing braking effort and increasing stopping distance. Failing to apply sufficient pressure on the pedal also decreases braking effort, again increasing the stopping distance. A professional driver could maintain close to maximum braking effort by knowing how much pressure they can apply without causing the wheels to lock, gained from much experience.
ABS allows the computer to detect the onset of lockup, before wheel lock occurs, and decrease brake pressure accordingly. You get the maximum possible braking effort, and all you have to do is plant your foot. More brake pressure would lead to the wheels locking, decreasing braking effort. Less brake pressure would be also less braking effort.
Comparing ABS with no ABS, ABS decreases stopping distance. For professional drivers, ABS decreases stopping distance somewhat. For everyone else, ABS decreases stopping distance significantly.
Thanks for the clarity Blu3wolf…
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In the -1 it mentions in chapter 3.8.7 to land >500ft before the arresting system to ensure the NWS is down. I took it as must as the geometry of the hook on the plane might be just like that (you may need a “levelled” plane for the hook to catch the wire). Can someone confirm pls?
it’s jsut a bug
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it’s jsut a bug
From non-carrier videos on youtube it seems that arresting systems are for AoA=0. If that is the case, one reason for requiring AoA=0 could be not to slam the front wheels down hard, which might happen for AoA>0. Navy gear might be robust enough for that, but maybe F-16 is more delicate. On the other hand, the non-carrier arresting systems seem to stop the aircraft over a longer distance than the carrier deck equivalent making for a softer braking effect.
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In the -1 it mentions in chapter 3.8.7 to land >500ft before the arresting system to ensure the NWS is down. I took it as must as the geometry of the hook on the plane might be just like that (you may need a “levelled” plane for the hook to catch the wire). Can someone confirm pls?
On which airbase (?) do you have issues (and which arrestor cable) ?
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On which airbase (?) do you have issues (and which arrestor cable) ?
I dont have any issues (atm). Just pointed out how it was mentioned in the -1 and that subjectively based on that info put my NWS down before reaching the cable. for the moment, all good and it worked out. Mav anyway pointed out that the bevaviour mentioned before seems to be a bug. all good.
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OK. Thanks!
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Hello!
Just to share opinons…
Don’t you think that F16 brakes are now very underpowered?
If I maintain the nose up for aerodynamic braking at high speeds, when the nose is lowered there is still too much energy and the brakes are not enough. On the other hand, if I lower the nose too soon, the brakes have to do a lot of work at full pressure to have the aircraft stopped at the end.
Our formation landings have became very difficult at the roll out energy management. I am testing the possibility of braking while the nose is still up, but it is hard without a pedal device to regulate the pressure.
Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this.
try switching off ANTI-SKID while landing…
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try switching off ANTI-SKID while landing…
Anti skid will remain active even with anti skid off, unless you switch to brake channel 2
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@Red:
Question:
In your car: is the brake distance longer or shorter with your ABS active?
Depends on driver. Poor driver hit pedal to the metal and ABS goes active which gives shorter braking distance to him. Good driver press pedal so that ABS not go active and and usually he get even shorter braking distance than poor driver with ABS activated.
Now taking this to airplanes, I really want to see pro pilot landing on icy runway on night where his other back tire hits on ice and other back tire on tarmac where ice is melted away by earlier landings without antiskid.Why we even talk about braking distances with ABS/antiskid? Whole idea of those is not to make braking distance shorter but keep car/plane controllable and brake at same time.
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@M79:
Depends on driver. Poor driver hit pedal to the metal and ABS goes active which gives shorter braking distance to him. Good driver press pedal so that ABS not go active and and usually he get even shorter braking distance than poor driver with ABS activated.
Show me. Its an urban myth, particularly in the case of prepared runways.
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Show me. Its an urban myth, particularly in the case of prepared runways.
Here is prepared runways for you:
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampere-Pirkkalan_lentoasema#/media/Tiedosto:Airfield_control_tower_at_tampere-pirkkala_airport.jpgSorry this is in finnish but braking powers ABS versus non abs on page 30:
https://www.theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/41000/OpinnaytetyoABS.pdf;jsessionid=F212F4DD87CD6F617BF111895ED66CD7?sequence=1 -
Race car drivers don’t like abs on cars as it shakes the car and upsets balance. It’s different for planes as I doubt anyone is trailbraking into the corner on a tricycle. Sure you might be able to outbrake abs once or twice with luck or skill but I there really is no good reason to turn antiskid off on a plane, except when it’s defective and the hydraulics are screwed, or so I’ve told.
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Race car drivers don’t like abs on cars as it shakes the car and upsets balance. It’s different for planes as I doubt anyone is trailbraking into the corner on a tricycle. Sure you might be able to outbrake abs once or twice with luck or skill but I there really is no good reason to turn antiskid off on a plane, except when it’s defective and the hydraulics are screwed, or so I’ve told.
I cant’t find no reason to swithch ABS off either. If you brake right ABS just dont activate.
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I might be way out of my element in responding as my only experience is in various airliners and other jets but one very big no-no for any pilot is to land with anti-skid off unless directed to do so by a QRH. I dont know anything about light single engine jet aircraft but I cant imagine the logic doesnt transfer almost exactly.
the CRJ I flew and A321 that I am current on make it quite clear that with Anti Skid off, we could expect to overrun the runway, thus limiting our landings to nothing but extremely long runways and even then, expect to lose a tire or two. Anti-skid is indeed that important.anyway, with that grenade that i tossed, i will walk away and make some popcorn.
cheers!