4.37 killed the AMRAAM
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okay , i think i am on something as far as lead guidance is concerned
The missiles in general (all of them) might loose too much energy when target is manoeuvering in the notch because their lead guidance is too big…
Those parameters have been unchanged for the last 15 years at least, we might start to open the pandora box now
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@Mav-jp said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
i really need to improve their skills in Missile avoidance.
I think the complain was that it is too hard to successfully kill any target in BVR. If you improve the AI skills in missile avoidance, than we will probably continue with wining and complaining even more. Think about that!
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Wow, got a SU-27 kill out of 4 shots, with only the last being a cheapshot. The ACMI says it’s an A-4 but it is an AN-24. Typical AIM-120C miss. The 4 shots on the SU-27’s were in TWS and the AN-24 was STT link text
let me know if this link doesn’t work, I’m not a google drive guy
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rofxyEEZY6bkp0a7d7-ugaCR_mc0YGuo/view?usp=share_link
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@MaxWaldorf said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
Discussed many times…
STT is just not a reliable mode and it was nerfed on purpose…
STT provides the higher track refresh rate but only against a single target in RL.
I do not get this statement. -
@molnibalage said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
@MaxWaldorf said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
Discussed many times…
STT is just not a reliable mode and it was nerfed on purpose…
STT provides the higher track refresh rate but only against a single target in RL.
I do not get this statement.I think it was a goof….maybe he read STT but thought TWS….
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@Mav-jp - correct. STT was NEVER intended for use with AIM-120.
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@Stevie So just TWS mode?
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@WPNS24 - Yes. It’s the ONLY way you can support multiple shots.
Same would hold for an F-14 as well…but for $$$ reasons, the AIM-120 was never integrated onto the Tomcat.
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@Stevie IDK, maybe that’s been the problem? For the past 400 years all I ever used was TWS mode and had a superb hit ratio (always had the speed and loft to make a good shot) So maybe trying to get just a single target lock and support to pitbull isn’t the way to go
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@WPNS24 that was a mentioned change in 4.36 AMRAAM threads that TWS is noticably less of a god mode now. In order to develop the tracks it doesn’t update as much as RWS and while it will support multiple missiles, they receive far less data updates than RWS and should really only be used against less maneuverable formations of say bombers.
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@Snake122 then why is your statement contradicting others? Seems that there is a difference of either opinions and it’s about 50/50 to TWS or not to TWS
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@WPNS24 - some of the “improvements” I’ve read forum talk about in 4.36 were also a step backwards. The 4.35 model was closer to RL, and I’ve been thinking of ways to try and transplant that model into 4.37…knowing full well that I will kill MP, but I’ll just have to live with that. I guess.
Getting back to some history behind the AIM-120, the F-14A/AWG-9 demonstrated Phoenix shots against six targets in one pass during it’s Development - resulting in six kills…that can NOT be done using STT - Single Target Track. The AIM-120 is essentially a follow-on to Phoenix…so…
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@WPNS24 See this thread I think people got their wires crossed between STT and RWS maybe for a minute and forgot to address the TWS.
@Stevie AWG-9 and APG-71 were different beasts than the F-16’s puny APG-68 and even then I believe I’ve heard a few F-14 RIOs that said that TWS was pretty amazing, but only on the APG-71, not as effective except for bombers on the AWG-9.
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@Snake122 - this should only be partially true…and dependent on how you use your radar. Larger scan volumes with wider azimuth sets will/can result in less accuracy…personally, I prefer to keep all radar scans to 2-bar, and generally decrease number of bars with increases in azimuth.
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@Stevie see my edit above re: F-14. Yes scan volumes and and such are important, but there is also the processing power to develop and maintain the tracks, which was my impression why the AWG-9’s TWS was not the main bread and butter mode like it was for the F-14D.
Check out that thread, you did participate in it some, but especially @OPPOTATO’s reply I found interesting.
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@Snake122 - this sounds lilke things I’ve heard as well. The AWG-9 was a completely analog radar, and the Phoenix was an analog missile. The AIM-120 is digital, and this is why it didn’t get integrated onto the F-14 (which was part of the original plan).
I think the APG-71 was/is a quantum leap over the AWG-9, but it came along far too late to meet the deployment timeline for the AIM-120 to allow a full development of the system. And thus the Tom ended up in the cat-box…
Yes - the APG-68 has a slightly smaller (and oddly shaped) dish than an APG-65, I think…but from what I’ve read around, I think it puts more power out. I think some of the way the Viper works around this is with their SAM modes…and using RWS certainly makes far more sense than using STT - which frankly, is a very antiquated radar mode…unless you are shooting AIM-7…which is a very antiquated missile.
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@Snake122 - I think the real reason was that the Tomcat never found itself in a combat situation where it needed to engage multiple targets…and yes, you are onto something about processing power, which is again - an analog limitation in this case.
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Here’s another flight and I took an AI wingman along with me. The AN-24 is ON APPROACH TO LAND and 2 slammers miss it. Then as you can see, 8 million 27 and 30’s descend upon us and I was able to get another. As you can see in my egress, I’m full gate and the SU-27 easily reached Mach 1.60??? How much fuel can they hold? All of these slammer shots were in TWS mode. Just not a 1 off scenario, it’s a serious concern. These type of engagements even happen with Mig-19/21’s Their evasion skills and the fact the slammer sucks right now is not a fun combo
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FPoW2ctAqt4anHAkhBXb2viP1jCmrqHq/view?usp=share_link
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AYD7jqA5zxu23wOHxhJeGz-0rlqjY_yT/view?usp=share_link
ANOTHER Aim-120 that can’t hit a fat lazy AN-24. And then of course the SU-27’s start doing some acrobatic shit… I might as well go guns on every bogey at this rate. Is anyone going to tell me this is normal? I don’t think so
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@WPNS24 said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AYD7jqA5zxu23wOHxhJeGz-0rlqjY_yT/view?usp=share_link
ANOTHER Aim-120 that can’t hit a fat lazy AN-24. And then of course the SU-27’s start doing some acrobatic shit… I might as well go guns on every bogey at this rate. Is anyone going to tell me this is normal? I don’t think so
Hey partner, lower the intensity a bit, you stayed there stuck with the amram thing. You have been answered by the BMS developers themselves and many of them are quite busy and took the time to explain so take it as a compliment. Now turn the page, refresh, fly and let fly.