Can Mavericks still be salvoed?
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Good Day, All. Back in the day you could lock-msl strp- lock-salvo Mav-D’s. Can that still be done, I’m double checking my procedure
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@drtbkj - if you are shooting more than one MAV per shot/pass, you are likely wasting all but one of them.
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Yup, it’s possible.
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@Stevie said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
@drtbkj - if you are shooting more than one MAV per shot/pass, you are likely wasting all but one of them.
It still goes BOOM doesn’t it?
And boom is 50% of shock and awe. Right?
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@MCDeedle - no, not always. Not in RL, at least…a MAV safes up if it thinks it is going to miss.
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@drtbkj said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
Good Day, All. Back in the day you could lock-msl strp- lock-salvo Mav-D’s. Can that still be done, I’m double checking my procedure
I will try to verify 100% but AFAIK it is possible (I implemented it back in the 4.33 days) and I doubt anything changed since.
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@Stevie said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
@MCDeedle - no, not always. Not in RL, at least…a MAV safes up if it thinks it is going to miss.
Well that’s disappointing…
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@MCDeedle - Not really. The MAV was originally designed to to be a Close Air Support weapon, and to be fired over the shoulders of Friendlies. For this reason, it’s far better if it misses long and doesn’t fall on the Friendlies - “boom” or otherwise - as “insurance”, should it drop lock enroute to target. So - one pass…one shot. In the RW.
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@I-Hawk said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
@drtbkj said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
Good Day, All. Back in the day you could lock-msl strp- lock-salvo Mav-D’s. Can that still be done, I’m double checking my procedure
I will try to verify 100% but AFAIK it is possible (I implemented it back in the 4.33 days) and I doubt anything changed since.
Same.
AFAIK, in BMS you can salvoed 2, or even 4 Mav’s, especially when using TGP hand off (ie you can do the search & Lock from farther).Lock phase
Search-Lock/HandOff
Msl Step
Search-Lock/HandOff
Msl Step
Search-Lock/HandOff
Msl Step
Search-Lock/HandOffFire phase
Pickle
Pickle
Pickle
PickleThe only limitations are :
- TV/IR Maverick’s (not possible with Laser one)
- you are can « pre lock » only 1 Mav per pylon
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@CheckPoint - the missile should step automatically after each launch. The only reason to manually step is if you hang any and get asymmetrical.
And there shouldn’t be a “TGP handoff” per se for a laser MAV - it should Slave to the TGP automatically, lock, and then be Uncaged. LMAV should also have a couple scan modes - the BMS LMAV model is still in need of work. The IRMAV one is pretty good.
Wouldn’t bother me any if they just plain took the triple racks out of the sim…
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You are right, I corrected my post accordingly.
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Good Day, All. The answer to the question is-yes, you can still salvo .Using Checkpoint’s method above, I salvoed 4. Loadout was one D/pylon ( Stevie-style )
However, only the first one hit it’s target I then repeated the mission and with single shots I got 4/4 hits. -
@drtbkj Hmmmm. I have personaly seen someone multiple times kill six targets in one pass and I have done at least 4 maybe 5 with boresighted D models (usually I get one or two misses). I would say it is most definitely possible in BMS.
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@Icarus - Yeah…that’s a BMS-ism. No way one could do that in RL. Multiple missiles into one target - maybe. Multiple missiles into multiple targets? No way.
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@Stevie said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
@Icarus - Yeah…that’s a BMS-ism. No way one could do that in RL. Multiple missiles into one target - maybe. Multiple missiles into multiple targets? No way.
Yes I did say in BMS not IRL. I have no idea of real life Mav performance.
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@Icarus said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
@drtbkj Hmmmm. I have personaly seen someone multiple times kill six targets in one pass and I have done at least 4 maybe 5 with boresighted D models (usually I get one or two misses). I would say it is most definitely possible in BMS.
Hi, Icarus. That was only one test, so results may very well vary
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@Icarus - Yeah I know - I was echoing you and agreeing.
I’ve been involved in the weaponeering and firing of at least six RL MAVs - MAVE and F ones. I prefer the laser ones. Done a lot more with those.
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@Stevie said in Can Mavericks still be salvoed?:
@Icarus - Yeah…that’s a BMS-ism. No way one could do that in RL. Multiple missiles into one target - maybe. Multiple missiles into multiple targets? No way.
It is a capability of the RL airplane. I even see evidence of “RP 3” launch (might be a typo because htf that work?). Is it a good idea? That’s a debate. Is the airplane capable of simultaneous independent track with no less than two missiles on two targets with a single WPN REL press launching? Absolutely, unless if it was nixed M7 tape or later I dunno about current day. They usually don’t nix ability for no reason. If it’s a bad idea just tell them not to use it.
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@Frederf - I think you can actually set the rack up to do that…I recall you can do that with a TER for Mk80 series (and LAU-10, LAU-68 for rockets). But MAV triple racks are no longer in use in the USA, so it’s sort of moot, operationally. I’d very much like to see the MAV triple rack pulled from BMS entirely, frankly.
Also - given that MAV is a CAS weapon, and doctrine is/was to be able to fire over the shoulders of Friendlies in contact, a ripple of MAVs would be tactically unreasonable. Which is probably another reason the rack has been abandoned.
Yes - I do believe that the TGP will track multiple targets. However, I very highly doubt that the jet can assign multiple targets to multiple MAV (of the same type) on the same - or two different - rack(s) without Stepping. In which case the previous one will drop track/lock.
This is based on what I know about how the RL missile(s) function, and they are a bit independent of the jet in that regard. I’ve been involved in the weaponeering and launch of a number of RL MAVs. Out of three, I’d expect only one to actually lock the target, and possibly only one to actually detonate.
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That’s not how it works. There’s no MTT to multi missile assignment that I’m aware of (and not in BMS by any means). You don’t even need TGP to do RP2 launches nor is LAU-88 or LAU-88A necessary. You can be in EO BORE, PRE, VIS whatever just get one missile tracking normally but instead of firing it step to a different station of the same type missile to track that as normal too. The first non-selected tracking missile will retain its track “in the background” as it were. The two missiles are independent for tracking purposes, same target, different, all up to pilot. Obviously one wants to check both are in good parameters before launching both. All you need is two missiles on two stations.
From memory the earlier RP 2 launch would launch both missiles simultaneously but the electrical draw of true simultaneous launch was a bit high so they added a delay between launches so holding down the release switch is necessary to ensure both. The “quick pickle” (at least with JDAMs) was solved by a latching “sure fire” system so that you couldn’t get a partial JDAM launch. I don’t know if that was also applied to Maverick as well. I’ve also seen mixed info on whether launch is inhibited without track. In some cases it’s not and in some cases it seems to be.
BMS behavior is a bit of a slice in time/conditions that isn’t representative of all F-16 behavior for all time. In any case in BMS it is perfectly possible to track two things with two missiles and release both with one button press.
As to terminology “salvo” is not the noun I would use to describe any Maverick launch. You can fire the missiles individually, two individually from prior simultaneous track, or two release pulses on a single switch press. From command’s perspective they don’t care in the moment how you made the missiles fly in terms of switchology. Shooting several missiles individually on one attack, setting up simultaneous track and individual switch presses per launch, setting up simultaneous track and grouped launches with a single switch press… all of these I would report as “Rifle, ripple two” over the radio. Functionally they are ripple delivery. The idea of calling them “salvo” would not be one that crosses my mind but I understand the intention behind that word choice for this question.