Weird compression/alliasing on kneeboards.
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I got a weird issue of alliasing/compressed look on some of the textures such as kneeboards (also on @sheref 's high res cockpit mod, but i dont include mods in this problem )
My FOV is set to 80,anti-alliasing setting to max. 1920x1080. tried sharpening settings from amd panel but didnt help. If i zoom in on kneeboards they look ok but when zoomed out its squirely mess.Here is how it looks.
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@SyntaxErol Will fix it for next update
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Well, this is the worst case scenario for anti-aliasing: Black lines on white background, nearly (but not perfectly) parallel to screen lines. Everything slightly moving. I don’t think you can get that much better.
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Something weird … the shimmering canopy-clamp that you circle with the mouse around 20sec mark … that’s not anti-aliasing. Maybe image-sharpening setting way overdone?
Re the kneeboards … I do see pretty terrible aliasing at 1080p, but not the headache-inducing shimmering effect that I see in your video.
Did you turn on fullscreen-AA shaders (FXAA) or multiframe AA sampling (MFAA)? I wouldn’t recommend either of those things, for BMS.
Do you have any unsupported third-party textures installed, or reshade etc?
For reference, here’s what my cockpit and kb looks like, in 1080p, 8x AA.
https://imgur.com/a/uz4brgZTo make the kneeboards readable without aliasing, I have to zoom in to roughly 40 degrees fov.
(Normally I fly at 4k with 4x AA … that is better, but there is still aliasing above ~80 degrees fov. As Logic said, it’s pretty much a worst-case scenario for antialiasing.)
I hear AMD cards go up to 16x AA … and have some additional “quality” levels apply to AA. It would be interesting to see a screenshot of kneeboards at 1080p, with AMD graphics.
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@airtex2019 well i didnt saw a fxaa setting in game, anti alliasing is set to 16 in quality tab. Cockpit textures are @sheref 's high quality textures so im thinking cockpit releated stuff happen because of their higher resolution. I really like the mod he done and want to continue to use it if i can solve this.
Every possible selection for graphics/shaders are on in falcon bms config editor and in game and everything is at max. Should i disable some ?
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Here are my amd settings, Is anything odd ?
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@SyntaxErol I don’t know the AMD settings / terminology well. You probably do want Anisotropic Filtering, and turn it up to max (16x typical). But I don’t think that would be related to the cockpit textures shimmering and aliasing.
Sorry I don’t know how to tell if the 3P cockpit texture mods are to blame, or not… or even if you “uninstall” them, how to tell for certain everything is back to normal.
A clean reinstall of BMS is all I would know how to do, myself.
In general, once you start “modding the mod” you are on your own to figure things out.
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@airtex2019 kneeboards are the same no matter the cockpit mod, the issue is with the resolution of the textures compressing too much
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@Dee-Jay i believe i turned on Anisotropic filtering and force supersampling, that solved the issue like 80 percent but it was 10fps, for some reason.
Can a 3rd party generate mipmaps for those textures ?
I believe they need to be regenerated everytime a new kneeboard page is updated ?
Maybe still usable fix/workarround for pages that you dont realy update much and also hi-res pit textures mod can benefit from this.
And yeah my issue is looking exactly like this. Youre right -
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@Dee-Jay can you check PM in dev forum about this topic? Let’s make it work for U3
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Hello,
Caution when doing this kind of brutal conversion…
You need to respect the initial file format, otherwise, you may get bad results.
- Alpha /no alpha
- DDS type (if the creator of the graphics generated a dxt5, there is a good reason for it)
Personnally, I use Nvidia Texture Tools Exporter :
https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-exporter
It’s a very very nice tool !
Radium
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@Dee-Jay said in Weird compression/alliasing on kneeboards.:
Can a 3rd party generate mipmaps for those textures ?
Easy : Download Paint.net … open your DDS, save in DDS and ensure that generate mipmap is set on (checkbox set).
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FYI: You may notice that cockpit textures don’t have mipmap. This is normal. Don’t do this for cockpit textures, they must not have mipmap, and result would be not better with mipmap (would be blurry).
Not sure it’s a good idea man, I mean to open a DDS generate mipmaps and then save it, possibly you will get even worse quality (Compression of already compressed content). I know we do that sometimes when no choice, but every time you do that, you loose a bit more quality of the original file, and since we are talking here about quality, I think this isn’t such a good idea. He needs to create from the sources…
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@SyntaxErol said in Weird compression/alliasing on kneeboards.:
I got a weird issue of alliasing/compressed look on some of the textures such as kneeboards (also on @sheref 's high res cockpit mod, but i dont include mods in this problem )
My FOV is set to 80,anti-alliasing setting to max. 1920x1080. tried sharpening settings from amd panel but didnt help. If i zoom in on kneeboards they look ok but when zoomed out its squirely mess.Here is how it looks.
Aliasing of too hires textures is a problem! Textures size (And I always tell that to people creating content/mods!) MUST match the object size and the distance it’ll be seen mostly.
What is the resolution of those cockpit textures? Do they have mipmaps? Maybe they should if they are very high res. Maybe they were created badly (Maybe even the DDS encoding plugin/SW may make a difference, internally we use Intel’s plugin for Photoshop to create new DDS textures, pretty much reliable and no problems AFAIK).
Let me explain in short the problem you see:
When a texture is being sampled by the GPU during shader execution, the GPU has information on the distance of the object in the world, what size it is etc, so when mipmaps are available for the texture, the GPU knows to pick the correct mipmap slice that will fit the distance perfectly (It’s smarter because it knows to sample 2 mipmaps and interpolate if necessary). But if the texture has no mipmaps and like in your case the texture size is very large compared to the distance, you get this shimmering mess.Generally that’s not an easy problem to solve and sometimes no perfect solutions, shimmering is part of GFX life and we sometimes just live with it, but trying to minimize as possible. But that’s the reason why the original cockpit textures don’t suffer that kind of shimmering, due to texture size (I bet these textures are way too high res).
If one want to easily see this kind of problem, just resave some terrain DDS texture without mipmaps and look at it in 3D from some distance, you will immediately notice how it’ll be all shimmering compared to the other mipmaped textures.
Asus Prime Z-690P D4, i7 12700K, G-Skill 32GB DDR4, RTX-3090, Lenovo curved 32" 2560x1440 monitor, Quest3, Thrustmaster Warthog
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Sir,
Mates don’t write to each other that way. Anyway.
Did I mentioned that I was referring specifically to this case ? No.
Micro asked some help about graphics topics. Because you propose solution to his problem, I just intended to explain some limits of your proposal in some cases, and proposing an alternative conversion software (paint.net is not so easy to use efficiently, at first, at least to me).
Regards,
Radium
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@I-Hawk should cockpit textures have mipmaps or dont as @Dee-Jay said, if not it seems like any high res then stock mod will suffer from this.
About kneeboards, maybe a python script of some sorts can be done to auto-mipmap them when theyre changed by wdp/ezboards or so.Im pretty noob on 3d stuff but maybe can figure out a tool…
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@SyntaxErol said in Weird compression/alliasing on kneeboards.:
@I-Hawk should cockpit textures have mipmaps or dont as @Dee-Jay said, if not it seems like any high res then stock mod will suffer from this.
About kneeboards, maybe a python script of some sorts can be done to auto-mipmap them when theyre changed by wdp/ezboards or so.Im pretty noob on 3d stuff but maybe can figure out a tool…
Cockpit textures generally shouldn’t have mipmaps because they are viewed from pretty close and we would like to keep the highest resolution even when leaning back. But that said, if someone created textures and they are creating shimmering, maybe better have them with mipmaps. If you understand how mipmaps work then mipmaps are just “subtextures” of the original at one level lower (i.e divided by 2, until you get to 1x1 pixels for the lowest mipmap). The default textures are at 2K IIRC, so they are fine, as far as I’ve seen even 4K are OK, if someone makes 8K then you may start seeing some shimmering, then either make them with mipmaps, or lower res. So while we have an answer with/without for our textures, we cannot ensure it’ll work for other mods. Stuff need to be tested carefully and decided accordingly.
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@I-Hawk Understood and agreed.
Supersampling setting on amd panel seem to solve the issue by wasting 3/4 of the framerate. lol.
No other setting made a difference in solving this messy kneeboard scribble
Even the default cockpit there are areas affected by this. (Note the countermeasure panel in the background)
