AI in dogfight is bad with guns
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BMS 4.37.2 KTO
Try this. Fly straight and level in dogfight section guns only. I am seeing the AI planes not hit much and are prone to over correcting and missing.
I have watched a Mig-29 try to hit me for like 10 mins. Try a few times and a few different enemy planes they seem to have problems hitting a straight non turning target. Tried all skill levels doesn’t seem to make much diff. -
This is a known issue since 1998
Flying straight makes AI unable to aim
I’ve tried to improve many times this situation over the years but I failed miserably each time.
An entire rewrite will be needed possibly with a complete new approach.
Don’t expect to be soon though
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@Hubert3000 I do a lot of dogfights, ace difficulty is actually a challenge. Have to jank most shots of the ai to survive. They are pretty accurate imo
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No if you fly straight and level they miss. Don’t touch the stick at all. This is what I’m seeing.
Example Mig-23 is shooting off to the left and sits there forever. Red side aircraft seem to be the worst.
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Doesn’t happen every time looks like a glitch, sometimes they get stuck in a miss loop type thing. I put everything on stock to check as I have OC CPU.
Just watched J-15 and Su-35S get stuck missing and looks like they will never hit. Weird glitch maybe?J-15
Su-35S
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@Hubert3000 I maybe confirm this … Dogfight game mode, vs Mig-29S skill level ace.
16k ft, about 350 kts – straight and level, altitude-hold autopilot on.
he turns in behind me, and continues to jank hard back and forth, burning (unlike your screenshots) but occasionally he takes a fleeting burst with the guns, and it’s always about 5 degrees off to the left, like your screenshots
Update! in the time it took me to write all that (I neglected to click pause) … he slowly compensated and got a little closer each time, and eventually a bullet hit me! I’m going down! lol
I don’t know if this is expected behavior or not … I have close to zero hours in guns-only dogfighting.
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Yes sometimes they roll around and can’t line up properly like Mig-29, over correcting, and sometimes they sit there missing like J-15. Sometimes they will hit after a while but I’ve also seen them miss for what seems like it would go on forever. A weird one. Noticed it a while ago but forgot about it. Tested 4.36.0 and it was there too. If I change the weather or move the green box around in the dogfight screen it seems to happen more often.
Anyway it only seems to happen if you fly straight, start turning and they seem to line you up quite well lol.
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AI is soo bad in low level and low speed not just dgf
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As someone who’s weekly quick “currency flying” pretty much no matter what is:
1.AAR TE to landing
2. 1v1 guns only match dogfight with Ace AI with 4 gen fighter, maybe a BVR match if time
3. IA air to ground weapons employment of each of the weapons on the jet in thatI agree that the Ace AI gunnery skills are plenty good enough once you start turning. I agree that the extreme low altitude is the hack against AI, but overall I feel they are pretty solid, especially when compared to what DCS at least used to be (although supposedly since I’ve played it they have updated AI to make them situationally decide rate vs radius, etc.) I don’t know how you make the AI anymore aggressive at that low of altitude and have a consistent code where they don’t lawn dart a lot.
I feel like it in some ways is the other way around with the low altitude. We tend to get false aggressive that low I think because the 100% PK of fighter vs. ground dogfight is a little skewed since we aren’t really going to die hitting the ground. I know there is a few times I’m scraping the trees that aren’t damaging yet in BMS and thinking in RL where would I have really stayed at. I think the AI’s “hard deck” isn’t that far off from a real life pilot, even with the life or death situation of a low altitude dogfight, there is the practical matter of still only being able to practically get so low.
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This is a known issue since 1998
Flying straight makes AI unable to aim
I’ve tried to improve many times this situation over the years but I failed miserably each time.
An entire rewrite will be needed possibly with a complete new approach.
Don’t expect to be soon though
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M MaxWaldorf has marked this topic as solved on
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new approach completed
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@Mav-jp nice work! but… maybe it’s a little too good now? lol
I’m ok if a few of the enemy cyborgs’ bullets miss, some of the time…
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@Mav-jp said in AI in dogfight is bad with guns:
This is a known issue since 1998
I’ve tried to improve many times this situation over the years but I failed miserably each time.
An entire rewrite will be needed possibly with a complete new approach.
Don’t expect to be soon thoughMav-jp, 2 hours later:
After “many years” + 2 hours, I have made AI now super deadly whether you’re steady, moving, or running and screaming for mercy. Be careful what you ask for.
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for the wimps
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Thanks Mav that’s phenomenal. Cool that you put a random element in there.
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Slick coding @Mav-jp !
While we’re on the topic of AI BFM/WVR, there is a very easy and reproducible case where the ai always behaves the same.
Setup a regular 1v1 head on 10 nm via dogfight mode. Chose guns and older generation heat seekers. Mig29 ace for instance.
Now, when the ai is about 5-4 nm, on your nose, fire a heatseeker without valid lock, the Ai will react on this and defend, almost always making a diving right hand turn. What’s interesting is that after this initial turn, it flies straight and level for quite a long time, just being idle before resuming the fight. I can reproduce very frequent. This gives me a very predictable situation to take him out since the pattern is so reoccurring.
Initially I thought the AI pilot blacked out due to high g defensive maneuvers but I think something else is going on.
Just a little quirk I learned during the years.
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@airtex2019
Great meme, and what a fantastic movie.
It’s very true indeed and somewhat of a naughty cheat -
b0bl00i: “You telling me I can dodge radar-guided 20mm autocannon fire?”
Morpheus: “No b0bl00i … I’m telling you, that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.”
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I think I’m beginning to believe!
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This isn’t about guns, specifically, but it’s about something the AI doesn’t do in the Dogfight module. This is something I’ve always wondered about:
If I set up a 1v1 dogfight against an AI opponent, where we each only have guns and rear-aspect heaters, the AI pilot never launches a heat-seeking missile. In all the dozens (maybe hundreds) of times I’ve used the Dogfight module in this way, I’ve never had a heat-seeking missile launched at me.
Granted, when I fire an AIM-9 Papa at my opponent, it almost never hits and it eats their flares instead. I assume that’s simply a realistic model of the Papa’s RL performance. A few of my Fox-2 Papas hit, but only rarely. Still, it does sometimes hit my opponent. I’m surprised the AI pilots never try to shoot their heaters.
I usually set the Dogfight module so that the opponent is flying either a Fulcrum or a Flanker, and I set them to Ace.
When I set up a 1v1 BVR engagement, where we each have radar missiles and all-aspect / HOB heaters, they do fire heaters at me. And sometimes those HOB heaters hit me. We each fire a radar missile, crank, dodge each other’s shot, repeat, and then go in for HOB shots. If we both dodge those too (fairly rare), we go in for guns. All of that fits with what I’d expect in RL.
But a DPRK AI opponent in the Dogfight module, armed with only rear-aspect heaters? I’ve never seen one of those guys launch at me. I’ve always wondered if there’s a reason for it.
