4.33 Issues (Known or not)
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Actually, the BMS loadout UI disagrees. It reckons AIM-120s on 1,2,8 and 9, and TK370s on 4 and 6, is a CAT III loadout. It transitions to CAT I with 3 AIM-120s or less.
I cant see it in the manual either. I do note that the Category of a loadout is now displayed on the loadout screen though. I would recommend before flight, checking the carriage limits, and the limits of your downloadings.
I would note that IRL, wing tanks do not make you CAT III automatically. The F-16 v F-35 dogfight some months back was against an F-16 configured with wing tanks - it was also a CAT I, and IIRC, 8.5G bird.
This doesn’t jive with my experience from my incentive flights. The pilot left the switch in Cat 1 so we could attempt 9G turns and we had a Stores Config light the entire time. Those load outs were CATM 9 L/M on Sta 1/9 and wing tanks on 4/6. Guess we would need a RL F-16 pilot to weigh in on this matter.
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This doesn’t jive with my experience from my incentive flights. The pilot left the switch in Cat 1 so we could attempt 9G turns and we had a Stores Config light the entire time. Those load outs were CATM 9 L/M on Sta 1/9 and wing tanks on 4/6. Guess we would need a RL F-16 pilot to weigh in on this matter.
Note that in the real jet, there exist loadouts that are cleared for CAT I operation, but which the MMC thinks should be CAT III, and operation with these loadouts and the switch in CAT I will trigger the Stores Config Caution Light.
EDIT: you definitely didnt also have a centerline tank, did you? that loadout with CATM 9s on the wingtips and wing tanks should be a CAT I, 9G loadout. The MMC should think its CAT I too, so it shouldnt trigger the light. Unless the pilot loaded incorrect SMS data, but that seems unlikely for a simple loadout like that.
Having the centerline tank, the wing tanks, and wingtip CATM9s, is still a 9G loadout (again assuming the tanks are empty), but its CAT III. The SMS will think its CAT III too.
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Note that in the real jet, there exist loadouts that are cleared for CAT I operation, but which the MMC thinks should be CAT III, and operation with these loadouts and the switch in CAT I will trigger the Stores Config Caution Light.
EDIT: you definitely didnt also have a centerline tank, did you? that loadout with CATM 9s on the wingtips and wing tanks should be a CAT I, 9G loadout. The MMC should think its CAT I too, so it shouldnt trigger the light. Unless the pilot loaded incorrect SMS data, but that seems unlikely for a simple loadout like that.
Having the centerline tank, the wing tanks, and wingtip CATM9s, is still a 9G loadout (again assuming the tanks are empty), but its CAT III. The SMS will think its CAT III too.
Nope. A three bagger setup is very rare to see flown in the USAF. Mainly on long cross country hops. The two situations you would normally see on the flight line are wing bags for A-G training/ops or centerline only for A-A. The AF also doesn’t get into re-configuring of aircraft to suit incentive flights as well. If the bird was configured for A-G training at the time (wing bags) that is what you got to work with.
I’m going to be close to Luke AFB in a few weeks. I’ll hafta swing by there and go through the manuals they have concerning loadout limitations and see what the real books say.
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Can I ask if you ever worked the flight line at Kunsan? If so, how often did they have AA flights with wing tanks? Did you ever see an AG loadout which did not use wing tanks?
In a related note, I see that BMS puts wing tanks as being limited to 8.5G dry, instead of 9G.
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Can I ask if you ever worked the flight line at Kunsan?
Yup I was at Kunsan from Feb 89 to Feb 90. They still had block 25 or 30 aircraft back then.
If so, how often did they have AA flights with wing tanks? Did you ever see an AG loadout which did not use wing tanks?
I cannot say for certain about A-A training with A-G loaded birds as that could easily happen with them leaving the switch in Cat 1. A-G birds without wing tanks doesn’t happen though.
In a related note, I see that BMS puts wing tanks as being limited to 8.5G dry, instead of 9G.
This is why I mentioned that we still had gas in the wing tanks. We weren’t dry yet. That was the first thing I did when I saw the Stores Config light pop up was to look down at the gas gauge. Still was north of 8000 pounds at the time.
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4 AA missiles + 2 370 tanks is a CAT I load.
When the wing tanks empty, the only thing that changes is a increase of the G limit. -
4 AA missiles + 2 370 tanks is a CAT I load.
When the wing tanks empty, the only thing that changes is a increase of the G limit.Is this an issue with my install, or with 4.33?
Im not arguing that anything other than G limit changes when the tanks empty. I do think that BMS’ limit of 8.5G for empty wing tanks should be 9.0G instead. I dont think wing tanks on their own should be CAT III. I do think that 6 AIM-9s, two wing tanks and a centerline jammer should be CAT I. I think 4 AIM-120s and two wing tanks should be CAT I, but that the MMC should consider them CAT III and that it should have a STORES CONFIG caution lit. Same goes for 4 AIM-120s on their own IMO.
EDIT: Question - is the loadout screen meant to indicate the correct loadout category to use, or the loadout category that the MMC thinks is correct? If the latter, then the last half of my above statement matches up with how 4.33 works. In fact given that the AIM-9 loadout I described is CAT I in 4.33, it seems most all of it matches up, aside from the 8.5 vice 9.0 G limit for dry wing tanks.
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The screen shot store limit data is constant with the real manual.
8.5G limit for 2 empty tanks 370 tanks ( that is what the manufacturer recommends)For a 300 tank the G limit is 7 for full and 9 for empty.
EDIT
9 G for empty 300 tank with 2 aim120 and 2 aim9
8.5 G for empty 300 tank with 4 aim120BMS is again constant with those configurations too,
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I agree on the 300 gallon tank. Its just the 370s that I had thought otherwise on. Obviously its a very complex thing to model.
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I noticed the stores config light came on too in cat 3 with the tanks still on. I just figured that
since those tanks were almost empty cat 1 wouldn’t be a problem. I like keeping them
on through the whole flight if I can because in the campaign my squadron was running
low.
I’ve noticed on youtube there are a lot of guys who ditch their tanks the second
they’re empy. I don’t like doing that. I would think that in real life dropping all those
tanks over enemy territory would get pretty expensive. -
My own habit is to drop them if keeping them becomes hazardous to my health. If I need to defend a threat and cannot ably do so with them, they go. Im a fan of bringing them back though, given their IRL cost. There’s times that can’t be done, and they are designed with that in mind - but given that you can run out of them in F4, its better to bring them back when you can IMO.
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On the subject of tanks I did notice the integrated pylons were still not dropping with the 370 tanks……easy to fix via bmsrack.dat but may want to include in future versions.
My biggest problem with keeping tanks was the damage done to the jet especially in a roll…far to easy to go through manual limits…especially when you have no feel of the aircraft…so any emergency situation (SAM/Su-27) they are gone.
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Oh I totally agree. I just noticed that a lot of guys drop them for no
reason other than that they are empty. With 4.33 I’m running out of
big tanks on the stores page. It says I’m out so I’m trying not to ditch them.
I just keep them highlighted on the jettison page so if I need to I can
get them off quick. -
Few things I noticed, my apology if they are already listed:
-( (Already typed, just repetition)… in the mission builder and UI schedule, there is no “right click” “names” option anymore.)
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For Mig-29s, if you hit jettison stores, AA missiles go off, centerline fuel bag stays. Not sure if this shall be a realism feature or is a bug.
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When you have CAT III stores and jettison them, F-16s, the cracking sound on hard turns and top speed will stay.
A few planes are not really lower end rig compatible (like mine hehe): Hi Poly models like Tornados, Harriers and Hornets tend to overload weaker GFX systems and produce black triangles in outside view. That however leads me to my last point:
-I need to upgrade my system
Cheers
Tom
PS:
Love the new effects and vortex plus wing shaking models, bar none in the simming world.P.P.S.:
This plane, one of the Su-27 family planes as for the famous Display team paintsheme, seems to have an issue with stores and racks, at least in the UI. best seen ingame:
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BTW, as for the interisting discussion on page 11/10, related to CATI/III; when I wrote
“When you have CAT III stores and jettison them” I meant what I always thought to be CAT III, standing corrected:
E.g.:
4 AIM 120, 2 AIM-9, centerline ALQ 131/whatnot TGP and 2 fuel bags under wings.In any case, the cracking sound persists when tanks are jettisoned.
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Isnt 4 AIM-120s and 2 TK370s still CAT III?
I always thought so until I read the previous comments.
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I always thought so until I read the previous comments.
It is CAT I like Leech says - but BMS UI thinks its CAT III incorrectly.
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Loaded Snakeyes are seen with tail expanded at long range, F/A-18A.
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I think that probably MAL & WARN indicator test button should also light up DED and PFD to maximum extent (100% green or all the pixel elements) to test those displays (F-16CJ-1, Figure 1-55, sheet 1-3).
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I think that probably MAL & WARN indicator test button should also light up DED and PFD to maximum extent (100% green or all the pixel elements) to test those displays (F-16CJ-1, Figure 1-55, sheet 1-3).
Manuals have the DED & PFL on the loop, however reality states nop.
PXIII / Block 52
PXIV / Block 52+ Advanced