Crosswind Landings / "Impossible Landing" TE / Crosswind landing advice
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That is the question.
If the F-16 is clean w/300lbs fuel is the FPM in the HUD in a 25kts crosswind at normal landing speed.
How do you know this?Simple math
With a approach speed of 140 kts (approach speed with 1000lbs more than clean weight) and 25kts Xwind, angle between velocity vector and nose is a bit more than 10Ā°, and the hud is 20Ā° wide. So FPM will be outside the HUD.
With higher speeds, a simple gust will make your FPM get out.
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I get 10.124671655397817 degree. lol well played lol
Iām not sure of that airframe design come into play. vertical stab area and moment.
I going to edit my post
if the FPM is out of the HUD you need to find another place to land!!!
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Land with hud as dim as possible use visual cues to refrence crab/rwy allignment and aoa indexer/tape to refrence the optimum for the approach I personally never use drift c/o on landingsā¦
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I get 10.124671655397817 degree. lol well played lol
In the words of Jesse Pinkman : āYeah ! Math, bitches !ā :mrgreen:
Plus, the frame of the HUD is 20Ā° wide, but the actual holographic display is actually a bit less. I would say 8 or 9Ā° from the center.
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Most of the time on xwind landing there is a headwind component that slows down the ground speed. So, you can land at higher airspeed without needing a long roll out or over speeding the tires.
I guessing if the FPM is out of the HUD you need to find another place to land. Too much side loading on the tire and LGā¦.as discuss.
Completely disagree. Most of the time there is a headwind component, period.
A few knots has very little effect on LDR.
You cant just say that most of the time there is a xwind, there is a headwindā¦ at YBLN the runway is built at 90 degrees to the prevailing winds. Most of the time there is a crosswind, and circuit direction will change every few minutes to try to eke out a few knots of headwind, but mostly to avoid having a few knots of tailwind.
You should not be landing faster to account for inability to fly. This is such a big deal - you even see experienced pilots doing this, landing faster so that the landing is smoother, despite the fact that its not correct behavior.
Land with hud as dim as possible use visual cues to refrence crab/rwy allignment and aoa indexer/tape to refrence the optimum for the approach I personally never use drift c/o on landingsā¦
Flying correct AoA on the indexer results in you flying a little too little Alpha.
show me some r/l video with FPM on the edge of the HUD at touchdown.
No videoā¦ but anecdotal F-16.net evidence is just as good XD
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This post is deleted! -
No videoā¦ but anecdotal F-16.net evidence is just as good XD
We have an old saying in this country.
āno Polaroid no proofāthanks for the link
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Use the Drift CO option for this kind of problem and evaluate your horizontal trajectory otherwise, by getting your eyes out of the HUD
no thank you. Drift CO is use for flying in high winds at high altitude.
Of course Cruz is right caper! And this is the reason/purpose of the drift C/O.
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Moreover, sometimes you cannot choose where you land : fuel, too much traffic on other runways, etc.
It is actualy quite simple. There is some xwind limitations. If you are above, you have to divert on a suitable airfield.
Thatās all.
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ā¦ people start to comment about landing faster so as to be able to see the FPM in the HUD still.
Because most ppl has no pilot expericance exept the video game and has no idea about what landing a jet is and how is has to be done.
The day they will ā¦ They will understand how it cost to loose 10kts of overspeed with a jet on a NATO runway (2400m*45m) not saying what it cost in temrs of kicks in the butt by the military instructor if you donāt fly the given aoa in final approche.
āMostā ppl here has absoluetly no idea about, precision, respect of procedures and professionalism, and this is 100% normal and understandable since it is a video gameā¦ But they usualy do not like when some other ppl are telling them that they a saying craps if we extend the discussion beyond the simple video game.
That is the main point hereā¦ Several years of BMS practising is more valuable than several hours of RL jet fying, try to convince them of the oposite. Hard works.Landing WITHOUT the HUD!!! ā¦ OMG ā¦ some ppl does even not really knows how to do WITH the HUD (proof in previous post) ā¦ Donāt ask them for āimpossible callenge.ā
Honestlyā¦ This thread āsucksā. Too many BS in there.
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That is the main point hereā¦ Several years of bad BMS practising is more valuable than several hours of RL jet fying, try to convince them of the oposite. Hard works.
Fixed it for you
I never flew a real jet, and yet, I found most RL procedures quite appropriate in BMS anyway.
But in BMS, if you dont stop the jet by the end of the runway, all you have to do is leave the sim :mrgreen:
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Cruz ā¦ You have learned more about RL in few month of BMS practising than many other in serveral years of BMS, FSX and more. and I am happy and satisfied about that. this is the āraison dāĆŖtreā of BMS.
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Cruz ā¦ You have learned more about RL in few month of BMS practising than many other in serveral years of BMS, FSX and more. and I am happy and satisfied about that. this is the āraison dāĆŖtreā of BMS.
this happened to me as well. its amazing what you learn by doing and reading, and doing again and reading some more.
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Going faster to reduce WCA is facepalm territory. For 150 KTS forward speed and 15 KTS lateral speed itās about 3.8 deg WCA. For 160 KTS you reduce your WCA to 3.6 deg. Such a great benefit for increasing your landing energy by 13.8% and your lateral momentum is still 15 KTS worth in both cases. Itās a cute idea but fails the test of reality.
I know drift C/O NORM is on landing checklist. I think there is no rule against using C/O while landing but it is dangerous to think drift is set NORM when it is still C/O. If you know to disregard it itās no problem for most pilots (HUD off too if youāre any good at flying). Itās just not recommended to land with C/O because thinking a FPM is truth when it is set to lie mode.
DeeJay is right about attitude. With real IP you try funny āmy own person techniqueā and see what you get. BMS community is not your daddy but if you want respect it is from how you act. There are very few social points in being a unique snowflake.
IMO, itās impossible to achieve āno pilot roll inputā while de-crabbing cuz thereās a phenomenon called Roll-Yaw Coupling and the F-16 has a relatively big Cl (Rolling momentum) produced by the rudder compared to the F-18, which means continuous roll input is expected to counter the rudder induced roll, dispite the fact that FLCS is compensating it as well.
Thanks for that answer. I know shoving the rudder causes roll (and if FLCS counters it itās too weak to matter in this case). I heard the case of the European F-16 not touching down in full level crab so Iām trying to figure out how. Maybe they have an edited OFP that cuts out ARI gently?
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Going faster to reduce WCA is facepalm territory. For 150 KTS forward speed and 15 KTS lateral speed itās about 3.8 deg WCA. For 160 KTS you reduce your WCA to 3.6 deg. Such a great benefit for increasing your landing energy by 13.8% and your lateral momentum is still 15 KTS worth in both cases. Itās a cute idea but fails the test of reality.
I know drift C/O NORM is on landing checklist. I think there is no rule against using C/O while landing but it is dangerous to think drift is set NORM when it is still C/O. If you know to disregard it itās no problem for most pilots (HUD off too if youāre any good at flying). Itās just not recommended to land with C/O because thinking a FPM is truth when it is set to lie mode.
DeeJay is right about attitude. With real IP you try funny āmy own person techniqueā and see what you get. BMS community is not your daddy but if you want respect it is from how you act. There are very few social points in being a unique snowflake.
Iām getting different numbers and I use different numbers.
Energy is not a problem until it correctly converted into heat.
The impact of a facepalm can vary depending on it angle it is applied.There no reason to use drift co on touchdown if you are in crosswind limits. Unless there is some other reason you want to degrade your instruments.
DJ needs to do what ever his instructors command.
I donāt think you have to use all acronyms. Iām a little tire up looking them up and nobody is going make you their daddy for using them.Iām an out of work Comanche helicopter weapon system designer who enjoy the technical side of the f-16. I do try to be respectful be helpful in some of the gray areas and donāt use a bunch of acronyms to try to make ppl feel stupid. In the process Iāve learn a few thing (for fun).
Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslopeā¦.I can make a list.
To some ppl in this threadā¦hmmmā¦they must think heās a snowflake. -
I do try to be respectful be helpful in some of the gray areas and donāt use a bunch of acronyms to try to make ppl feel stupid.
+1
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Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslopeā¦.I can make a list.
To some ppl in this threadā¦hmmmā¦they must think heās a snowflake.Did you also notice that his jet was almost aligned with the runway before he flared? I see small banking and possible rudder before he gets to the threshold. Hmmm. When he finally touches down, there is little need to de-crab. Looks about right to me.
P.S. I do not think you are a snowflake. I do not think others here believe you are a snowflake. Now, a cornflake, well thatās a different story. :lol:
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Did you also notice that his jet was almost aligned with the runway before he flared? I see small banking and possible rudder before he gets to the threshold. Hmmm. When he finally touches down, there is little need to de-crab. Looks about right to me.
P.S. I do not think you are a snowflake. I do not think others here believe you are a snowflake. Now, a cornflake, well thatās a different story. :lol:
wind is much less strong in the vicinity of groundā¦ā¦
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Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslopeā¦.I can make a list.
This is what resonates with me the most.
In Falcon (mainly BMS), I have been in so many different landing scenarios that required different stick/throttle applications that I would find it hard to pin a number. Wind (especially that push/pull effect on the nose just before touchdown), weather, flameout (shouldaā brought the wingbags!) battle damage (have landed on several occasions with no HUD)ā¦what about corrective action for overspeed or underspeed on approach? I currently do not own rudder pedals and use the keyboard for rudder input after touchdown, so I have been immune to the temptations of trying to slip/kick one in.
Sometimes terrain can have an effect. At least for me. I have taken a few flights lately in the Sinai (SP) theater, operating out of El Gora. Runway 26 has a ridge in front of it and I have a hard time on approach keeping the glideslope due to the height of the ridge and the distance from the ridgeline and the runway threshold. I havenāt crashed yet, but I had a couple of very bouncy landings so far.
But a lot of it for me (and Iām not a pilot!) in BMS just seems to go by feel sometimes. And I also believe it is true (as I have read, anyway) that some RL pilots use different landing methods than others in the same AC.
For instance, the Drift C/O switchā¦One pilot may be able to use it and just reference his pitch angle on the HUD while maintaining a good sight picture of runway alignment outside of the HUD, while another may get fixated on the HUD and need to keep it in Normal mode and maybe rely more on the pitch arrows for AOA.
I think the hardest part, because it is a sim and not RL is convincing yourself sometimes, that you need to abort and call it a missed approach.
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DJ needs to do what ever his instructors commandā¦
There is the letter, and the spirit of the letter!
From the beginning you seems to not understand the spirit of the letter.Yes, instructor commends to do some things, but explanations comes after. And one day, you try your own way, and most of the time, you realise that Chappy was right mate.
Maybe simply because it is an error from the beginning to think that you are smarter than another guys how has about ten times more flight hours than you. So my point is: you will not live long enough to do all the mistake yourself, so take benefits of other pplās mistakes to grow faster and live longer.But once agin, we are talking about a video game here where landing upside-down is possible by checking the invincible option ON. So yes, everything is allowed.
But a lot of it for me (and Iām not a pilot!) in BMS just seems to go by feel sometimes. And I also believe it is true (as I have read, anyway) that some RL pilots use different landing methods than others in the same AC.
This is true.
But all those pilots knows the bible and had roughly the same instruction. So they know where they are and how much they are deviating from the āpure letterā. They also knows when they can and when they shouldnāt deviate. Finally, theknow how to revert to basics quite quickly when things are going wrongā¦
This is something I canāt really talk with you as my English isnāt good enough, and I also want to enjoy my holidays under the sun of the Indian Ocean.
Happy landings guys.