3D Cities for Falcon…
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How about no hit-box at all on building blocks, let em be only for eye candy or cosmetic…
Doing 3d building within a matrix, leaving plenty space for ground units to travel in, to insert targets etc… would conciliate this project with falcon, IMO. -
Hi,
My point exactly BMARTINS!
As we all understand the sim is old and its done in private time plugging away at it here and there. “We get IT”… but lets not be negative or else why are we all here?..You might as well be honest and say its all crap and move on since its just FALCON 3.0 revised that’s it, Okay, so why even bother at all then, right.
I know that this is what people really think since its also been mentioned over at DCS that F4 terrain has always sucked if I may say, and its true and honest, its not BMS fault but the reality of this sim, the terrain is awful looking kinda like Seven-G at this stage…but if BMS Devs, Theater DEVs and Community spirit gets involved making many hands for light work I see this monster tackled and handled sooner rather than later with some minor work and then…later major upgrade to terrain engine, terrain mesh, terrain tile size, terrain textures and and database with new ground models, but some small mods for now would be great to get more out of sim whilst BMS devs still work on bugs and avionics and small features, point is some improvement on theaters desperately needed.
For Example eventually BMS will have to consider a new terrain engine and mesh to bring about something like this…
Well keeping the faith and looking forward all things are possible just time and patience, I believe.
Although, if anyone wishes to read this thread https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?11931-Free-Falcon-ground-terrain-graphics and many others like it some members say they can make those types of models and structures easily, so why not get them to do it, if they are offering.
Heck if you read the forum enough so many guys want more out of BMS F4 …. so hence my reason for encouraging this effort those who can model understand code etc etc please update the model structure database for new ones please delete Falcon 3.0 models its 2013 soon…for crying out loud. Sick of the nay sayers…
If models could be placed for Kimpo Int’l AB then whats the hold up on…if you know what I mean respectfully speaking.
Also listening to guys on Youtube they say in just a few hours they can knock up a small structure for air bases, Oil Refinery Plants etc etc stuff like that a few days.
I might add there are guys here in the community that have offered to create them in posts here in Forum I have checked there profile’s some are in software development or possible gaming industry not clear but read past threads regarding this TOPIC, its really time to work on the old database models.
Imagine a new ground structure database with new models with different types to select from for those who design campaigns how awesome would it be going by the Youtubes in this thread alone, damn awesome!
Its desperately needed in BMS F4 and looking forward its a combat sim with much empty terrain with ground structure models from the early Falcon 3.0…days.
Oh c’mon lets crack a wip on this, I mean Theaters like … “GUAM”… which look very classy but now where are the new models to place in that theater.
Yet to see some good Oil Refinery Plants etc etc as mentioned above made for new theaters, please tell me that the current database ground structures will be deleted for goodness sake its OLD OLD OLD stop using that crap if I may say honestly.
Now this might mean that Guam maybe held back until new ground structures can be added modifying a few tiles here and there, streets, leveling etc etc … but its worth it.
I mean if newer ground structures can look like Kimpo Air Base and we end up with a new database full of new models and ground structures like that it would be enough as long as texturing is better than past.
Can anyone visualize this and how vital it is to the sim looking forward.
Now about FPS c’mon I mean I run XPlane10 and DCS on a 3 year old PC now with Windows 7 full GFX settings all good, if you like your sim’s be prepared to spend on upgrades to PC’s, this ain’t XBOX…LoL
Also, Hitbox is important why its a combat sim, but for capital cities not needed only ground structures and suburban buildings think insurgents with manned SAM sites, tanks etc etc bang one flyby in my new F-18 (Soon) boom job done…thanks! Now Dev’s Rebuild again…LoL
I’m simply just encouraging for a better sim here looking forward in years to come …its up to those that can and know how to use 3DSMAX and relevant tools to get it done in a good time frame.
Some may choose to be negative and dance around the same topic thread after thread until one day someone say’s right lets change the database, but in my honest opinion better now while your building NEW THEATERS, right!
Truthfully, just do it, I say seriously whats to discuss… what… some are telling me that Falcon 3.0 ground structures in database are okay and continue to be used… then you might as well just import old theaters from other Falcons or buy them, if you get my honest view!
How many times have I read here and over at ED/DCS how bad terrain and ground structures are in Falcon, everyone says it.
So, it would seem logical to discuss and share community input and make them now before release of new theaters.
“BMS4.32 Pilots”… just want new ground structures like mentioned in this THREAD PLEASE!
Although, I will respectfully back down from here in this thread its up to those who can change things and make it happen I just wanted to be creative looking forward and saw a need to speak and encourage for good quality theaters to enjoy!
Well Cheers anyway!
EDIT: I must be FALCONIZED… or something lately I’m actually talking more like a Falconeer…LoL…run everyone I’m about to go thru Falcon puberty… Is this what happens to others once your a mature Falconeer…may the Lord have mercy…time for repentance in for the next confessional visit…LoL
:uham::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::dhorse::uham:
PS:- Please … Support the effort, “THANK”…the first post!
PM or post a reply in thread to Arty or BMARTINS if you have something to contribute!
Long Live F4!
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Beginings are always not easy….
Implementation of new 3D elements seems more than desirable and logical. Question was posed by someone how to introduce new building to DB and how it is practically done. The reply by Arty was that it was there:https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?11749-Arty-s-Hot-List
Development Wisdom - Tutorials
How to add NEW AIRBASES… Finding the way.
F4Patch Guide
F4Patch + LOD replacing/injection tutorial?
LE TEXTURE Utility - All Falcon Versions (for Skinners)
Autotiler (CATE) for 4 byte 64 size terrain (tilling tricks and tips)
Tiles & opacity(water) channel question
Theater developmental notes - Available Tool’s
Tutorial: Creating and Adding Squadron Patches to your InstallWhich of them specifically?
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if the purpose is to have the end result bear some sort of tactical significance then removal of the damage model, read hitboxes, is not even negotiable - they must be available and properly defined.
for msfs specific endeavors, godspeed to Arty…
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if the purpose is to have the end result bear some sort of tactical significance then removal of the damage model, read hitboxes, is not even negotiable - they must be available and properly defined.
for msfs specific endeavors, godspeed to Arty…
How many times have you been assigned to destroy a residential building in falcon?
Factory´s, nuclear plants and once in a wile a specif buildings and bridges not residential… So even if you have a convoy parked in front of a building and you drop a gbu on it wouldn´t be a big scandal if it´s still up. And to keep thing a bit realistic and save some work one could just change the texture to a darker tone or burned in destroyed lod saving a lot of work.
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How many times have you been assigned to destroy a residential building in falcon?
Factory´s, nuclear plants and once in a wile a specif building not residential and bridges… So even if you have a convoy parked in front of a building and you drop a gbu on it wouldn´t be a big scandal if it´s still up. And to keep thing a bit realistic and save some work one could just change the texture to a darker tone or burned in destroyed lod saving a lot of work.
Honestly … personally I do partialy agree with BMARTINS.
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This post is deleted! -
How about no hit-box at all on building blocks, let em be only for eye candy or cosmetic…
Doing 3d building within a matrix, leaving plenty space for ground units to travel in, to insert targets etc… would conciliate this project with falcon, IMO.i think it should have a hit-box, but your right, i think placing the cityblocks in a matrix with plenty space between each block for ground units should be a good solution.
iam not familiar with 3ds max and the falcon map format, but shoulnd’t it be possible to create 20 different blocks
and the destoryed counterparts and place with a automation algorithm in a random matrix pattern on the city ground textures? -
Arty, I borrowed your pic due to laziness.
Instead of trying to model every city individually, create blocks instead. That picture only uses two or three different types of buildings. Even the pic’s in the first post of this thread use about 6 different types of buildings, they just added a slight scaling factor to change the height on some of them. So, model a set of buildings, from high rise commercial/residential down to single homes perhaps. Than a few industrial buildings. Once those are built, you can than go into falcon and start building different types of cities. To keep it simple, we have large, medium, small, and rural types of cities. You would essentially make each tile in falcon a city block, make up a few variations of these tiles for the different density’s and than piece them together.
I’m pretty sure you can save the layout of buildings on the tiles in falcon so that you can plop that layout down anywhere else you’d like, RAM knows more about that one, I don’t care to venture past doing anything except textures for falcon due to a fairly large personnel project going on at the moment.
Make sense? Harder trying to describe than I thought it’d be, lol. And, if you need textures, I can help ya out, I’m currently working on some building textures at the moment anyways. Here’s a pic of one texture that’s tiled 4x4:
I thought I remembered reading something about BMS wanting atlas textures for buildings though, not sure how that one is set up.
If you do it, I’d be willing to help you out with the ground textures that you place the buildings on as well, in order to match up everything to the placement of the buildings!
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Yes that is possible. But what about terrain leveling?
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Instead of blocks, stripes of buildings and follow the elevation. Also u can do it as is in falcon. Is there a way to see them in 3ds or inprovise let’s create - find a way.
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Beginings are always not easy….
Implementation of new 3D elements seems more than desirable and logical. Question was posed by someone how to introduce new building to DB and how it is practically done. The reply by Arty was that it was there:https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?11749-Arty-s-Hot-List
Development Wisdom - Tutorials
How to add NEW AIRBASES… Finding the way.
F4Patch Guide
F4Patch + LOD replacing/injection tutorial?
LE TEXTURE Utility - All Falcon Versions (for Skinners)
Autotiler (CATE) for 4 byte 64 size terrain (tilling tricks and tips)
Tiles & opacity(water) channel question
Theater developmental notes - Available Tool’s
Tutorial: Creating and Adding Squadron Patches to your InstallWhich of them specifically?
In a way I believe the answer is at How to add NEW AIRBASES… Finding the way at post #24 by Demer928:
I’ve been a bit remiss on sharing what I’ve learned about Custom AB’s.Though some older developer’s are interested in that area and have asked, I have been reticint to reply.
So to help Joe and other’s along in their quest,I’ll try and spell out some guideline’s here.
That is ,if you don’t mind Joe???
First and foremost an “Objective” as it relate’s to the DATABase in Falcon, is an “Entity” unlike any other’s, that can “Contain” FEATURE DATA (model’s) also, as far as AB’s…… POINT DATA.
It doe’s NOT need to contain any DATA in Falcon to exist.
EXAMPLE:Add-Copy CT 0 in F4Browse,ya’ get a new CT record, say 3798. Add-Copy Objective 0 in Objectives in F4Browse,ya’ get a new Objective,say 749. Match the Offset to the CT record and now you have a new BLANK objective “entity”.Name it and add it to your map via the new OCD number.
Now you have an “Objective” that is devoid of any feature’s\point data that you can now add and manipulate.Get it???
demer
BTW: I prefer to do my AB’s edit’s in Buzzy’s BMS editor,though the tool can be better…(Hint,Hint… when ya’ get a minute ;)) I also use Monster’s tool for a “LookSee” on the tile’s,as well as the OCD in the .tac,.cam file’s.
thanx demer928
Also here:
http://tactical.nekromantix.com/tactical/wiki/doku.php?id=falcon4:database:editingtutorialAm I correct now Polak?
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LOL just had an idea for easy with speed of the light destruction models creation… Just build the same block with way lower heights and use specific textures…
Does any one has some kind of those or a direction where to look at? Or I should take the High Way look up google go to pictures download and start making them?Also there is already a request on this to the developer of GhostTown… No response yet though… He is full cause he is about to finish the next release of this plugin…
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Thank you Arty for your reply .
For some hints and inspiration how to model destruction you may look here.
http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/training.php?pid=220
It may be too involved though and your way of lowering the hight and adding “destroyed” textures is good idea.In 3dsMax there are some quick modifiers which mess up the mesh pretty realistically. Take a look also at nCloth or RayFire but that maybe not necessary after you apply some perlin noise and texture to your scene.
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Now now now… well
Have a look…
OPEN STREET MAP IMPORT:
So now let’s get serious Ladies and Gentleman…
Anything to say??? Realistic tiles… huh this is the way… Can Open street map get imported to Falcon???.. and redo all the theaters…
//Arty runs and runs and runs… no hide… just run…
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Now now now… well
Have a look…
OPEN STREET MAP IMPORT:
So now let’s get serious Ladies and Gentleman…
Anything to say??? Realistic tiles… huh this is the way… Can Open street map get imported to Falcon???.. and redo all the theaters…
//Arty runs and runs and runs… no hide… just run…
Good luck with your project.
If your 3D cities can be applied in Falcon world, it will be a revolution I want to experience.
Force will be with you. -
Guys ,
If you really want this project to leave some mark on Falcon, IMHO the best chance is to try to work with what already existing. There are multitude LOD models of cities, towns , settlements , industrial objects already in Falcon. Why not improve them by growing them larger?
You can double, triple all the way to n-uple by copy@ paste, and then transpose: move & rotate virtually any element of the existing database. You can ADD new elements, new buildings and industrial or military complexes, new super airbases. This can be really well coordinated with background tiles to give more robust look in 3D.There is virtually unlimited number of possibilities already within our reach without kind of inventing the wheel, which is fine for the purpose of the posting, but not really for practical follow up and implementation in the 3D engine.
What is perhaps needed is little more user friendly interface of LOD Editor and some serious individual commitment. Yes… little learning and unfortunately lots of time. Just my 2c…
EDIT:maybe it can be done, maybe not. LODEditor is crashing a lot
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You can double, triple all the way to n-uple by copy@ paste, and then transpose: move & rotate virtually any element of the existing database. You can ADD new elements, new buildings and industrial or military complexes, new super airbases. This can be really well coordinated with background tiles to give more robust look in 3D.There is virtually unlimited number of possibilities already within our reach without kind of inventing the wheel, which is fine for the purpose of the posting, but not really for practical follow up and implementation in the 3D engine.
Been doing it for several months now in IT-BMS. All new construction of objectives. Moving all features so none sit on roads, etc. It takes a while and is a lot of work but I’m about 70% done. Once I finish, I can get it off to Itai.
RAM22
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Guys ,
If you really want this project to leave some mark on Falcon, IMHO the best chance is to try to work with what already existing. There are multitude LOD models of cities, towns , settlements , industrial objects already in Falcon. Why not improve them by growing them larger?
You can double, triple all the way to n-uple by copy@ paste, and then transpose: move & rotate virtually any element of the existing database. You can ADD new elements, new buildings and industrial or military complexes, new super airbases. This can be really well coordinated with background tiles to give more robust look in 3D.There is virtually unlimited number of possibilities already within our reach without kind of inventing the wheel, which is fine for the purpose of the posting, but not really for practical follow up and implementation in the 3D engine.
What is perhaps needed is little more user friendly interface of LOD Editor and some serious individual commitment. Yes… little learning and unfortunately lots of time. Just my 2c…
EDIT:maybe it cant be done, maybe not. LODEditor is crashing a lot
I couldn’t agree more. Here’s the thing that chaps my hide… if you tell people to stop dreaming and get to work, they tell you that you’re being negative. Well, this is a classic case. The ability to add buildings are already in Falcon. So why hasn’t more work been done on that front? Two reasons: 1) With the current engine it will kill FPS and by default, immersion. 2) It’s HARD and takes TIME. I propose the people spending literally hundreds of hours posting on these forums should instead spend some of that time actually doing some of the things they propose others do. The excuse of “I don’t know how” is irrelevant, since these same folks also want to come across as the experts of these subjects. Really, it’s time for a reality check and give some respect to the theater creators who DO spend the time and energy doing it as quickly and efficiently as can be done.
Sorry for the rant, but this is getting old.
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+1!!!
RAM22