DOKDO Air Refuleing Area specificity
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Helicopters, probably.
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Thanks Eagle-Eye.
this may justify the low altitude.
Do you know if fixed wing could use this area too ? If yes, in which circumstances ? -
I’m not sure if it’s used for helicopter AAR, so it’s just a guess. I have no idea about fixed wing either. The area is 40NM long and 10NM wide, so technically, it is possible, but I don’t see why fixed wing would want (or dare, given everything that can go wrong) to practice AAR at such low altitudes.
Just checking the (real) Korea AIP, I noticed there’s also a remark saying “1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise”. To my knowledge, those are operating hours, but that would make this area seem even weirder. Why have anyone refuelling at low level, at night, at +30NM from nearest land?
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Good idea to have a look at real AIP.;)
So, We are 2 guys asking now …
The operational manual “AIR-TO-AIR REFUELLING - ATP-56(B) (AJP 3.3.4.2)” precises that AARA are established for training reasons in peace time.
“(a) Peacetime AARAs/anchors areas and AAR tracks are areas of airspace established by the national authority for the conduct of routine AAR training. These areas can be either permanent or activated by NOTAM.” part1 2-1
Unfortunately, PART 3 – ROTARY WING PROCEDURES and PART 4 – TILT ROTOR PROCEDURES are missing. no way to confirm you hypothesis via this manual.Windblow
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I’m not sure if it’s used for helicopter AAR, so it’s just a guess. I have no idea about fixed wing either. The area is 40NM long and 10NM wide, so technically, it is possible, but I don’t see why fixed wing would want (or dare, given everything that can go wrong) to practice AAR at such low altitudes.
Just checking the (real) Korea AIP, I noticed there’s also a remark saying “1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise”. To my knowledge, those are operating hours, but that would make this area seem even weirder. Why have anyone refuelling at low level, at night, at +30NM from nearest land?
Happens in Flight of the Intruder (Stephen Coonts). But it is an emergency situation on a carrier with a A-6 tanker, not a proper area.
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I’m not sure if it’s used for helicopter AAR, so it’s just a guess. I have no idea about fixed wing either. The area is 40NM long and 10NM wide, so technically, it is possible, but I don’t see why fixed wing would want (or dare, given everything that can go wrong) to practice AAR at such low altitudes.
FYI, the Super Etendards who hit the Sheffield in the Falklands had to refuel very low too to avoid early detection.
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I’m not sure if it’s used for helicopter AAR, so it’s just a guess. I have no idea about fixed wing either. The area is 40NM long and 10NM wide, so technically, it is possible, but I don’t see why fixed wing would want (or dare, given everything that can go wrong) to practice AAR at such low altitudes.
Just checking the (real) Korea AIP, I noticed there’s also a remark saying “1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise”. To my knowledge, those are operating hours, but that would make this area seem even weirder. Why have anyone refuelling at low level, at night, at +30NM from nearest land?
MH-53s or MV-22s from MC-130s?
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FYI, the Super Etendards who hit the Sheffield in the Falklands had to refuel very low too to avoid early detection.
I think those Navy Super Etendards refuelled in that misión, but not at low altitude, as the Sheffield had not being detected yet.- When a patrolling Neptune got a contact, they descended to near the sea surface and remained undetected until the Exocet, which was launched at short range (11Km) was visible, but too late to avoid it.-
Indeed they refuelled at low level, repeatedly, in other very long range missión when two S.Etendard attacked the carrier Invincible with the last Exocet available, in the company of four Air Force Skyhawks which followed it after launch towards the carrier, with the result of two Skyhawks shot down, and a following great discussion about if the carrier was or not hit.- -
Hope not to derail the discussion: those areas are for peacetime training, are there rules to place Air Refuel Areas in no peacetime? Just in TE of course.
G -
I’m not sure if it’s used for helicopter AAR, so it’s just a guess. I have no idea about fixed wing either. The area is 40NM long and 10NM wide, so technically, it is possible, but I don’t see why fixed wing would want (or dare, given everything that can go wrong) to practice AAR at such low altitudes.
Just checking the (real) Korea AIP, I noticed there’s also a remark saying “1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise”. To my knowledge, those are operating hours, but that would make this area seem even weirder. Why have anyone refuelling at low level, at night, at +30NM from nearest land?
It is possible this is an area where to train helicopters to perform night refueling with a close recovery airport if something goes wrong. This is my guess!