Europe Theater Discussion
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well better start building those in a 3d app.
Huh, I do not understand this part. How you get 3D reference about general objetcs?
Take a break from database editing… clear your mind with something else.
I finished developing my MOD about 1 month ago I’m waiting Khronik to build an installer but I’m considering to release earlier without installer then the installer comes when it comes.
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Huh, I do not understand this part. How you get 3D reference about general objetcs?
u mean height length etc? if the object exists in Google Earth u measure it from there. Else by reference from pictures… if a man stands next to the building u set his height to let’s say 170cm and from this u estimate the building height.
Else if u find info from Internet or other publications.
If u have no reference for a specific tower let’s say u ask what height has in average a tower and u build it that way.
example: http://www.controltowers.co.uk/Site%20Map.htm
in some pics has cars next to the buildings… those are also good reference.
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I found the linked gallery through GE images, they can be measured. (Kiskunlacháza)
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Roger. If the theater is smaller I don’t dig up in forum and asking around.
The theater isn’t smaller, I think Sphynx meant east/west Germany should be first priority
for 3D modelling.Can someone post a picture of the complete area of the theater?
ATM. I think we’ll use the WIP theater by Lukas
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?15394-Europe-Theater-Discussion&p=221789&viewfull=1#post221789
… because the theater I did needs still lot’s of work
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?12677-Request-Europe-theater&p=174370&viewfull=1#post174370Cheers,
LS -
If u do what is now then altering it to 80’s era in some cases will be just textures and for 3d models will be few and in many cases alteration on existing like lower or smaller buildings.
Not entire true, … Bitburg AB tower and it’s surrounding buildings is a good example.
… and like I’ve already said, in case of buildings the textures are the most time intensive part.R we talking for AB’s only here or for cities also?
AB’s first, cities later.
Well I saw some vids and how easily u can do it in 3ds still didn’t convinced me that it’s faster or better. But this is subjective. I have years of corel draw usage and it’s like a second nature for me. With Corel approach it helps me much on texturing it also…
Differently workflow here.
@Eghi
Will try to answer tomorrow, … I’ll drink a beer with my sik friends here now.Cheers,
LS -
@Eghi
Will try to answer tomorrow, … I’ll drink a beer with my sik friends here now.Cheers,
LSGood for you!
Take care mate.
Nikos. -
As for the Netherlands: for FSX there is very detailed and realistic scenery available (freeware): http://www.nl-2000.com/nuke/
e.g. Leeuwarden airbase screenshots: http://www.nl-2000.com/nuke/modules.php?name=gallery2&g2_itemId=10716
Just a technical question: if permission for use in BMS would be granted, could these files be used, straight away or by conversion of any kind? If so, I can try to contact the NL2000 team.
(Leeuwarden overview) -
well I believe any help will be way better then nothing… and if they comply then u have a country ready… a way good start…
Now let’s take some steps back will we please?
Can this theater be build actually?
tiles limitation above all… so the majority of terrain must be with generic tiles… so like 70-80% of tiles - areas will be the same. City tiles will have to be the same also…
objecttives - features - 3d objects - textures…
I hear the bms guys talking packing a whole block of buildings in one texture with damaged and destroyed in the same texture cause of memory issues…??? didn’t really understood the issue… but I take it as valid, they know better.
This theater will be able to work? I mean what? 300 airports? 9000 buildings just for those? and then army bases bridges cities…
will the LodEditor be able to manage a file larger then what? 1 - 4GB maybe?
Working on what tool for that vast database? How easy it will be to manipulate such a data chaos? mearly the whole world weapons vehicles arsenal will be there… squadrons??? OMG
I want to see the objectives links… :lol:
ITO with 6000 objectives brings cpu’s on their knees here we are talking about what? maybe more then 12.000?
Numbers are just way out of the mind estimates, no actual data… but have u guys measured them?
yeap right…
will need a dual cpu motherboard with 8 cores each, one and a half cpu just for the data handling and half (4 cores) for normal falcon procedures…
Maybe u should inform BMS dev’s to optimize code to cope with it.
Am I far here? or there is base to my thinking?
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ATM. I think we’ll use the WIP theater by Lukas
The 128 segment one? (Which seems to be a wise choice, according to Arty’s posting)
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LS,
You prefer to do 3D buildings first… ok. But what about textures? As you know (?) is better to put few buildings on one texture (including damaged and destroyed Lod) for one objective (eg. AB). Do you have any plan how to do it? Text ID, etc …I was told by teamleader Sphynx that we don’t model damaged and destroyed lods yet.
(because most of them will be never damaged or destroyed anyway)
There are no plans for Tex- IDs, etc. yet. My 2048² textures are named Bitburg_01, Bitburg_02, …I hope Sphynx will explain that topic further.
Cheers,
LS -
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Just a technical question: if permission for use in BMS would be granted, could these files be used, straight away or by conversion of any kind?
These files could not be used straight away and I don’t know about any conversion tools.
So I also don’t know if a tools exist in FSX which can convert to *.3ds or any other 3D format.If we could get the main files as *.3ds or even *.max would be great.
Cheers,
LS -
Can this theater be build actually?
tiles limitation above all…
Am I far here? or there is base to my thinking?Good point, Arty and honestly the actually code doesn’t support a EU scenario like we would see it well,
but we are in hope that things will change in the next few years.In meantime we’ll try to work with what we got from BMS folks.
Cheers,
LS -
The 128 segment one? (Which seems to be a wise choice, according to Arty’s posting)
With whatever we’ll get from Lukas.
We could also use objectives for just a 128 seg. part of a 256 seg. theater…
Cheers,
LS -
Ok some quick facts then…
Cities villages towns in Europe: Above 250.000 In theater let’s say what? around 100.000? :lol:
Bridges in Europe: about what 40.000?
Factories: same as bridges 40.000?Come on guys let’s face the truth first…
If Lukas has the map ready then he has those data in hand I believe… could he tell us the numbers?
This theater to be functional needs a new database and terrain engine in Falcon.
EMF guys must also face same problems with their large map but there is the Med sea which helps a lot… in Europe it’s the opposite most is land and less is sea.
Edit: I just took a look at SP4 Europe theater and has inside 12.728 objectives… which are rather few I would say…
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The major problem in theaters like Europe is congestion of transport, urban and industrial infrastructures. Perhaps cities not so much, but road network is the most difficult IMHO. 1 road tile or 1 industrial objective occupies 1km square and in parts of Europe most of the time there is much more going on in 1km^ than just that. Unless there is mechanism to have roads as vector graphics overlay (independent from the tile) I see little problem here.
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It’s all about choices: what is managable/doable within BMS. E.g. maybe 3 or 4 military airbases in the Netherlands probably will do. Not every river and stream has to be implemented nor every road, to keep the number of bridges down. Maybe you can use terrain tiles where as a kind of eye-candy the ‘water’ is in fact solid ground and where the ‘bridge’ is just the road, to keep the ground vehicles moving in campaign.
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Just put in all you (as a german) can tell from the top of your head.
I’d say
Hamburg
Berlin
Munich
Frankfurt
Flensburg
Kiel
Stuttgart : )
Pott
Kassel/Göttingen
Leipzig
Dresden
Hannover
Nurnberg
Ulm
…40-50 cities shall do the trick I’d say.
Have a working thing up fast and enjoy making it better instead of striving for perfection first in never ending and always increasing struggle/frustration.
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in that sense then airbases don’t need to be build from scratch… use stock Korea airbases and u r done… why build the how many airbases?
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This theater to be functional needs a new database and terrain engine in Falcon.
I’m not the only saying that F4 needs a new terrain engine? Is this really true?
And this is btw. the reason why we are currently doing 3d objects only.Guys, I can assure you, that all the we had all things that you are currently talking about were already mentioned in the last 10 yrs since I started this project.
@livrot
It’s not about making 40-50 Cities, that’s neither the point nor the goal. I’d like to have a tool where you can specify 3d objects and parameters and the city gets created.
Depending on the level of detail, I’d say you can easily spent serveral months on creating some of our bigger cities.
(And of course Stuggibuggi has top priority :D)