How will Flight Attack Specific STPT and WPN Targets?
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Hi, I am trying to understand how each aircraft in a flight of 4 will attack targets assigned in the briefing. I can assign targets in the briefing but not targets to specific aircraft in my flight. The BMS Comms Manuals says…
Weapons Free: Clearance for the wingmen to use its weapon in a self-directing targeting manner. The initial state of AI wingmen is Weapon hold. When wingmen receive the weapon free command they will start looking for the target on their own.
Attack Targets: In air to ground mode, the AI will attack briefed targets and prioritise them as assigned in the briefing. They may execute multiple passes until you call them to rejoin.So, say I have STPT targets 15 to 22, and WPN (SPICE) targets 1 to 8. I am lead in a flight of 4, each aircraft having 2xGBU and 2xSPICE bombs:
a) Which targets will each aircraft attack if I issue a “Weapons Free” or “Resume Mission”? Will my Wing automatically take 17,18 and 3,4 and likewise for the rest?
b) What if I TGP designate STPT target 17 and issue “Attack Targets” to my flight? Will they only attack 17 to 22 and leave out 15, 16?
c) Each aircraft will only use GBUs for STPT targets and SPICE for WPN targets, right?
d) If I want my Wingman to attack, say WPN target 7, I would have to have WPN target 7 in my DED and select the SPICE bomb station with target ID 7 in the SMS page, then order my Wing to “Attack My Target” right? Or is there a better way to do this?
Apologies for so many questions. I understand the above is probably not how target assigning is done in real life. Just trying to understand how to get the AI to do more target specific work. Thanks!
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I’m curious about separating the SPICE assignments as i’ve only used them with a human wingman. “Normally” I will lock a target and then give my wingman (or element, too bad you can’t separate them to #3 & #4) to “Attack My Target”. That seems to work fine for LGBs, GPS, Mavs, or dumb bombs, but Spice targets are assigned to each ship (in the Data Cartridge IIRC, been a while) at briefing so not sure how that would work…
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Hi, I am trying to understand how each aircraft in a flight of 4 will attack targets assigned in the briefing. I can assign targets in the briefing but not targets to specific aircraft in my flight. The BMS Comms Manuals says…
Weapons Free: Clearance for the wingmen to use its weapon in a self-directing targeting manner. The initial state of AI wingmen is Weapon hold. When wingmen receive the weapon free command they will start looking for the target on their own.
Attack Targets: In air to ground mode, the AI will attack briefed targets and prioritise them as assigned in the briefing. They may execute multiple passes until you call them to rejoin.So, say I have STPT targets 15 to 22, and WPN (SPICE) targets 1 to 8. I am lead in a flight of 4, each aircraft having 2xGBU and 2xSPICE bombs:
a) Which targets will each aircraft attack if I issue a “Weapons Free” or “Resume Mission”? Will my Wing automatically take 17,18 and 3,4 and likewise for the rest?
b) What if I TGP designate STPT target 17 and issue “Attack Targets” to my flight? Will they only attack 17 to 22 and leave out 15, 16?
c) Each aircraft will only use GBUs for STPT targets and SPICE for WPN targets, right?
d) If I want my Wingman to attack, say WPN target 7, I would have to have WPN target 7 in my DED and select the SPICE bomb station with target ID 7 in the SMS page, then order my Wing to “Attack My Target” right? Or is there a better way to do this?
Apologies for so many questions. I understand the above is probably not how target assigning is done in real life. Just trying to understand how to get the AI to do more target specific work. Thanks!
a that point (4.35) you can not pre planned a specific target per aircraft
You can however do it in real time by designating your self and instruct your wingmen with ‘"attack my target’".
You can’t control #4 directly though and when instructed to #3 , #3 and #4 should attack the same
If you use “Weapons Free” once you are on your target Pt, then AI will chose their targets based on computed (quite obscure) code routine that you can’t change or interfere from a User point of view
3 to 4 weeks to wait i’m afraid
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I guess I want to know what these statements mean:
(a) “will start looking for the target on their own” (weapons free) - Looking for targets assigned in the briefing (saved in DTC) or any target the AI code works out ??
(b) “attack briefed targets and prioritise them as assigned in the briefing” (attack targets) - All in flight will attack target 1, then target 2, then target 3 etc, or, lead and wing will attack targets 1,2 and element will attack targets 3,4 ?? -
Just $0.02, and only 2 cents. “Weapons Free” will send your hound dog wingman to go off on his very own. Usually to someplace nowhere near where you want to go. I NEVER use this option. “Attack targets”, I use 90% of the time. I have never seen them go after anything you have prioritized in your Target list that is saved to the DTC. Point Track a column, they will unleash hell on that one or one in close proximity. And “usually” will continue until ordinance is depleted. Point tract a factory. Steel on target. May not be the highest value asset. “Attack My Target”: They do just that. Give them time to set up their run, but usually they deliver the goods. Call “Rejoin” and set them up again. This is all based on the use of GP, Mavs, LGB. Stand off weapons have different effects from where I sit. e.g. SDBs, they like to send them all downrange a one particular unit or such. If the mission calls for stand off weapons, I’ll just load them up with something else for TOO.
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Keep your wingman in very tight formation right up until you are within release parameters, and he will be too. The millisecond you hit “Attack” you can see his bomb release as if you did it (because in reality, you did).
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Just a thought, Ive just started to get familiar with Data Link and have good luck assigning A to A targets to wing 2-4. Have read in the manuals this is doable in A to G also. Has anyone tried this to assign ground targets?
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There is a “datalink ground target” command on the comms menu. I haven’t ever used this … not sure how it’s different from “attack my target”?
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There is a “datalink ground target” command on the comms menu. I haven’t ever used this … not sure how it’s different from “attack my target”?
Datalink ground target makes your wingman share HIS cursor to you.
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Thanks for the clarification sungad. This could be useful in not targeting the same target.
Let your wing man choose his first. -
Datalink ground target makes your wingman share HIS cursor to you.
Is this AI wing or human Wing?
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Thanks for the clarification sungad. This could be useful in not targeting the same target.
Let your wing man choose his first.Or for asking “Hey, do you see any targets?”
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Just $0.02, and only 2 cents. “Weapons Free” will send your hound dog wingman to go off on his very own. Usually to someplace nowhere near where you want to go. I NEVER use this option. “Attack targets”, I use 90% of the time. I have never seen them go after anything you have prioritized in your Target list that is saved to the DTC. Point Track a column, they will unleash hell on that one or one in close proximity. And “usually” will continue until ordinance is depleted. Point tract a factory. Steel on target. May not be the highest value asset. “Attack My Target”: They do just that. Give them time to set up their run, but usually they deliver the goods. Call “Rejoin” and set them up again. This is all based on the use of GP, Mavs, LGB. Stand off weapons have different effects from where I sit. e.g. SDBs, they like to send them all downrange a one particular unit or such. If the mission calls for stand off weapons, I’ll just load them up with something else for TOO.
Same experience. They seem only respond to attack this or that and for Spice it’s the same but you need to select a Wpn Tgt from the SMS Msl Step (which would be one of the Wpn Tgts assigned in DED).
I wonder - if I left them alone and issued resume mission, would they attack my DTC targets automatically? Or when the flight is near the steer point of DTC targets and I issue weapons free, would they attack those DTC targets? Yet to test but I doubt so. Although, isn’t that the point of DTC to share mission targets even with AI?
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When I use “Weapons Free”, it usually means, “We’re in a furball and I lost SA, shoot at everything you see”.
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Flight members auto-assign AG targets based on mission in much the same way as an all-AI flight would. If it’s like AA group sorting it’s assumed that #1 (often you) will take certain targets in the list. To get mission-based attacking it matters that it’s the assigned target for a mission. AI won’t AG hounddog on TOOs.
I did an OCA strike TE and just flying normally through the waypoints, passing IP, AI ask me “let me at 'em”. Then you give WF and they prosecute the mission target. Mission target is assigned by ATO. It has nothing to do with your DTC.
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I did some TE testing.
Setup:
- Strike mission on Objective Beirut South Sea Port at STPT 7, specifically to target “Dock Crane” as per Briefing/Flight Plan
- I assigned specific STPT targets 15,16,17,18 (structures belonging to Beirut SOUTH Sea Port in Recon screen, only 15 is 1 of 3 Dock Cranes)
- I also assigned specific WPN targets 1,2,3 just north at Beirut NORTH Sea Port (structures belonging to this port in Recon screen)
- Flight is 4-ship with 4xGBU38 + 2xSPICE
Enroute:
- Entered WPN targets 1,2 into DED (just to see what happens later)
- Gave Flight “Weapons Free” when Flight asked for “Permission to Engage”
- Left them alone
Results:
- Flight unleashed all GBUs and SPICE bombs on all 3 Dock Cranes and some “Crane Arches” (belonging to Beirut SOUTH Sea Port at STPT 7) and called out “weapons on target”
- They did not hit any of my DTC targets (STPTs 15,16,17,18 and WPNs 1,2) except for 15 which was a Dock Crane (a coincidental hit)
- Debrief shows they were out to destroy “Cranes”
Take Away:
- AI flight will only hit the ‘type of target’ mentioned in the Briefing (Dock Crane in this case) as a priority, and then possibly other targets belonging to the Objective
- AI are oblivious to your DTC targets
- Other targets you want taken out would require “Attack My Target” (AMT) or “Attack Targets” (ATs) command (see next post below by Frederf)
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The assign button only picks the high priority target (target type?) on that objective. They’ll still hit other things too. My OCA strike had runway as assigned priority target but they still hit SSR, control tower, etc. They did seem to prioritize runway segments though.
AMT and AMTS works in a slightly different way. AMT (AG) is “kill this thing and only this thing and you’re back to WH”. AMTS (AG) is “kill this thing and all the other valid targets in this group until you’re out of weapons or targets”. You can do a strike hitting specific things by AMTing your wingman against a target you point out and element a second target. #4 will just double up on the element target.
AMTS will actually assign each member a specific target from the list based on what you highlight but you don’t get exact control over it. If you highlight an AA bandit flight of four and AMTS then #2 attacks #2, #3 gets #3, #4 gets #4 leaving you (1) to get 1. If it’s 4 v 2 then 1 and 3 get assigned #1 and 2 and 4 get assigned #2.
For strike missions I like to just let AI auto-target if it’s not super critical. When they’re hounddog you can ask for DL target messages and sort of see what they’re going to hit (if the * would show in DBS2 that would be SO HELPFUL!). If in doubt of what good sorting I can allow element WF first and let them take first crack at the target list. Then me and #2 can be assigned the DTC-prepared high priority targets that remain.
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The assign button only picks the high priority target (target type?) on that objective. They’ll still hit other things too. My OCA strike had runway as assigned priority target but they still hit SSR, control tower, etc. They did seem to prioritize runway segments though.
AMT and AMTS works in a slightly different way. AMT (AG) is “kill this thing and only this thing and you’re back to WH”. AMTS (AG) is “kill this thing and all the other valid targets in this group until you’re out of weapons or targets”. You can do a strike hitting specific things by AMTing your wingman against a target you point out and element a second target. #4 will just double up on the element target.
AMTS will actually assign each member a specific target from the list based on what you highlight but you don’t get exact control over it. If you highlight an AA bandit flight of four and AMTS then #2 attacks #2, #3 gets #3, #4 gets #4 leaving you (1) to get 1. If it’s 4 v 2 then 1 and 3 get assigned #1 and 2 and 4 get assigned #2.
For strike missions I like to just let AI auto-target if it’s not super critical. When they’re hounddog you can ask for DL target messages and sort of see what they’re going to hit (if the * would show in DBS2 that would be SO HELPFUL!). If in doubt of what good sorting I can allow element WF first and let them take first crack at the target list. Then me and #2 can be assigned the DTC-prepared high priority targets that remain.
Thanks very much for the added resolution on “AMT” and “ATs”! Will update above post with these learning points. I have used mostly AMT and ATs. But was curious to know what the AI would go after on their own with regard to DTC targets.