Left base.
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You shouldn’t need progressive taxi instructions at a fighter base. Progressive taxi is for visitors who can get lost.
It is atypical for fighter aircraft to get progressive taxi instructions.
Thats not true. With ground traffic and hot pit taxi to park, as well as taxi to arming zones, there are specific taxi instructions during these operations. You do not just taxi into a hot pit area, let alone an arming area. Ussually you are directed into a holding line before you can taxi to those areas.
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But I have mentioned in another thread pertaining to AWAC call outs that would better picture development through brevity picture call outs for a better and closer to RL picter from AWACs.
Having a few other contacts called out (instead of just the “nearest bandit”) is not hard, some extra info (hot/cold) either, but describing the picture with correct labels for each group (north trail group, etc… ) and correct global situation ("Wall, “Echelon”, “Vic”, “Champagne”), etc. is trickier to do though. I agree this would definitely be nice.
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Thats not true. With ground traffic and hot pit taxi to park, as well as taxi to arming zones, there are specific taxi instructions during these operations. You do not just taxi into a hot pit area, let alone an arming area. Ussually you are directed into a holding line before you can taxi to those areas.
I stand by what I said, and annotate that hot pits are also atypical. You get an aircraft marshal through hot pit and arming areas, but not progressive taxi.
If it helps you, just pretend you are practicing commout operations. Details for that in the 13-205 iirc.
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If ATC were easy to program or to be replicated by a machine they’d long ago dumped human controllers, don’t you think?
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Bluewolf is right about progressive taxi. most of the time, the taxi in use is know by SOP’s and pre-brief. Progressive taxi is somethings more civilian because you never sure if the guys know the local procedure or not.
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Bluewolf is right about progressive taxi. most of the time, the taxi in use is know by SOP’s and pre-brief. Progressive taxi is somethings more civilian because you never sure if the guys know the local procedure or not.
You can’t never sure if military visitors at military airbase know the local SOP either. so it’s the same for the military.
As said that would be considered atypical but one can never say never
I even remember seeing follow me trucks on military airbase. it’s not progressive taxi but the idea is the same: avoid the guy being lost and screw up the sequence -
@Red:
I even remember seeing follow me trucks on military airbase. it’s not progressive taxi but the idea is the same: avoid the guy being lost and screw up the sequence
Every year at RIAT follow-me trucks are used to marshal the arriving a/c as by definition most if not all are going to be visitors.
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Yeah of course, maybe for Red flag, TLP or big foreiner exercice Ground will help. But this is not usual, so implement ground ATC in Falcon is a little bit pointless to me because IRL this is not the regular procedure used for the military.
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Yeah of course, maybe for Red flag, TLP or big foreiner exercice Ground will help. But this is not usual, so implement ground ATC in Falcon is a little bit pointless to me because IRL this is not the regular procedure used for the military.
I agree, separating Tower and Approach is a bigger deal for me, than separating Ground and Tower.
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I agree, separating Tower and Approach is a bigger deal for me, than separating Ground and Tower.
fully agreed
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I agree, separating Tower and Approach is a bigger deal for me, than separating Ground and Tower.
Well if you think about it the final approach clearance or abort is tower , the rest is approach
Do you want a different voice ?
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A different freq when you are handed over to the appropriate service with the correct responsibility would be nice.
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Well if you think about it the final approach clearance or abort is tower , the rest is approach
A different freq when you are handed over to the appropriate service with the correct responsibility would be nice.
Same here
I know the message changes between “XX Tower” and “XX Approach”, but that is cosmetic
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I agree, separating Tower and Approach is a bigger deal for me, than separating Ground and Tower.
Same also.
Would need two different frequencies.
- Approach: All recovery vectoring and vector departures* (* Not Implemented)
- Tower (& Ground): All Taxi, takeoff & landing clearances.
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Same also.
Would need two different frequencies.
- Approach: All recovery vectoring and vector departures* (* Not Implemented)
- Tower (& Ground): All Taxi, takeoff & landing clearances.
I also definitely agree. Seperate the frequency between appraoch and tower/ground. That would definitely be more realistic then what we have now.
As for the progressive taxi instructions, it is common practice to marshal ground instructions during combat air operations. This is because there are so many aircraft stacked and marshaled with jets constantly moving between take off and landing traffic. I will see if I can find some ods ground comm traffic. Very busy comms during taxi to TO and marshal to park/hot pit aircraft.
I also forgot that when crossing a runway to reach another runway does require ground control to advise the aircraft as well.
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I also definitely agree. Seperate the frequency between appraoch and tower/ground. That would definitely be more realistic then what we have now.
As for the progressive taxi instructions, it is common practice to marshal ground instructions during combat air operations. This is because there are so many aircraft stacked and marshaled with jets constantly moving between take off and landing traffic. I will see if I can find some ods ground comm traffic. Very busy comms during taxi to TO and marshal to park/hot pit aircraft.
I also forgot that when crossing a runway to reach another runway does require ground control to advise the aircraft as well.
No really… next you will be telling us that aircraft movements outside the loops require a taxi clearance!
XD
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He is not that wrong …. remember that we are not talking about non controlled here but kinda about a controlled environment.
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He is not that wrong …. remember that we are not talking about non controlled here but kinda about a controlled environment.
Exactly. Most taxi instruction are pre briefed. However, during combat operations, ground comms are used primarily to stack jets on specific taxi ways for line up, pin pull/arm areas, hot pits and intersection runways. For bms, most of this would not be needed. Again, however certain ground taxi advisories, such as “hold for traffic” when crossing runways as well as marshel to “arm” area would be a good addition imo.
RL ground comms are quite busy. Yes, most taxi instructions are pre breifed but there are a few instances where you are advised to use certain taxi ways.
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I also forgot that when crossing a runway to reach another runway does require ground control to advise the aircraft as well.
Not sure how the military does this and/or you may just be using the wrong word, but in civil, crossing a runway is a clear and separate instruction ('taxi to holding point E4, cross runway 19 to F4, …") which can only be given by the Tower-controller, as he is in charge of runway operations, even if the runway to cross is closed.
In practice, however, I know it is possible to have the instruction relayed by the Ground-controller, or to coordinate that Ground can have traffic cross an inactive runway until Tower says otherwise. -
In the military world I know, there are some SOPs. If you plan to take part to an exercise on an known airbase, you have to find the “domestics” documentation and study it carefully (Nellis for Red Falg is an example).
If you divert on a (big) airbase and you are not familiar with the taxing circuit, you can ask for help (radio) or even request a “follow me” car in some cases (handling or base ops duty) … But in any cases (except some extreme emergencies where you could land on an unscheduled airfield), you have to take all the needed airfield plates in flight, and be able to taxi by following ground instructions. Worse case, vacate the taxiway and shut down the engine … then wait to be towed to the apron LOL
To cross a runway, you always need a clearance. Either by radio, or visual sings (the “Silent day” at red flag where all a/c taxi and takeoff without any radio contacts.