F22 Raptor Vs Euro Fighter
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You ever notice that the guy that loses always has an excuse?
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Ya but the raptor is not ment to get in dogfights.
I dont think that statement is correct.
The 22 was designed as an air superiority fighter. Thrust vectoring in a dog fight give the jet a very real advantage compared to non tv jets. I have not heard of the 22 loosing to the Euorfighter. I know 22s were deployed recently to eastern Europe where the 22 may engage the Euorfighter, but I have not heard of any tallys between them. Could someone post a credible link for such an engagement?
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I kind of have an impression that Typhoon is more about turning at (relatively, to the F-22) higher speed, whereas F-22 is about “sc**w aerodynamics, I’ll turn, NOW”. A bit like F-16 vs F-18, but on stereoid.
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I dont think that statement is correct.
The 22 was designed as an air superiority fighter. Thrust vectoring in a dog fight give the jet a very real advantage compared to non tv jets. I have not heard of the 22 loosing to the Euorfighter. I know 22s were deployed recently to eastern Europe where the 22 may engage the Euorfighter, but I have not heard of any tallys between them. Could someone post a credible link for such an engagement?
https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/cleaning-up-red-flag-alaska-f-22-vs-typhoon-debate/
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i dont think they will ever get into a full up merge
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The most funny thing …. is that the tendency is to say that the Americans are bragging about how strong they are … but when i look closely at it it is not true. It is actually the opposite, everyone is so eager to say we beat the americans … when you interview them (US pilots) after the dissimilar encounters … it always looks like they got what they wanted from the training …and it always looks like the other nations tend to focus on the “we kicked their ass” … i also think that most people do not understand the true role of the F-22 … they only see what is for now and don’t realize that this plane is more than just an air dominance fighter … US …well knows that tomorrows battles will not only be fought via kinetic means.
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Man, I think the Eurofighter Typhoon airframe is purdy. The Raptor, looks like it came out of Motor City to me. Needs some cosmetic surgery or lipstick at least.
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rafale turns better than the raptor
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The F-22A and EF-2000 flight models seems very similar to what they were in Allied Force. Doubt there is any useful info in the public domain to change them that much anyway.
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rafale turns better than the raptor
I’m slightly confused by this - the English translated caption for the Video says the video is the Rafele Vs the Typhoon. Is there F-22 footage mixed in somewhere that I just missed?
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I’m slightly confused by this - the English translated caption for the Video says the video is the Rafele Vs the Typhoon. Is there F-22 footage mixed in somewhere that I just missed?
Looks like an F-22 in there to me……try 4:45… DJ posted this years back on here.
The EF features quite a bit in this vid
:rofl:
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Thanks for the link.
Well, the 22 was very expensive. Primarily due to its stealth capabilities and avionics. Again we pay for a jet that seems to underperform. The 35 has also been recently touted as being underperforming. Avionics and stealth have certain advantages, but if you get into a merge (many scenarios exist for this) both of these new jets could have serious problems.
I guess I hate it when we spend so much to get mediocre performance in return. It seems to me that LM are simply out to make a buck. A lot of bucks. Just IMO.
Hope both of these jets prove themselves at some point. Not adadvocating war here but this may be a big problem down the road.
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+1 On Migbuster.
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Once again, videos of exercise kills make absolutely no sense when taken out of context. And by context I mean the setup, the rules and limitations etc. A defensive BFM for the Raptor and the Eurofighter in those vids will have them in the sights of their opponents almost immediately after the “Fight’s on” call. Were they limited in some way e.g. afterburner usage? What about aircraft configuration and weapons allowed?
These vids are good for reasons of national pride and marketing, targeted to people that don’t know how the Air force works. There is also a T-38 video out there gunning a Raptor, should we scrap the latter aircraft from the USAF inventory and replace them with the venerable training jet?Let’s get back on topic, which is, the flight models of the Eurofighter and F-22 in the sim.
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https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/cleaning-up-red-flag-alaska-f-22-vs-typhoon-debate/
I don’t know if I would call that a “Credible” source. The comments quoted from Jane’s are in limited scope, and it only says they “Reportedly” “Bagged” 3 F-22s in 1v1 situations. 8 Sorties is not the same as 8 “merges”, it’s not uncommon to merge 3 or 4 times on a training sortie, fuel permitting. If they merged 4 times that’s a great ratio… if they merged 20 it’s not so impressive. This is, after all, just someone’s personal blog. I’m not saying the EF isn’t a capable fighter, the quote from the Col involved in the exercise clearly indicates that it is, but all the quotes in the blog and the article excerpt are a little biased as they are from the EF squadron commander, who effectively says more or less they expected to do poorly, and did better than expected.
You can find several “Opinion Blogs” to support either side of the argument:
http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/p-i-r-a-t-e-versus-raptor.html
http://theaviationist.com/2014/09/30/these-may-be-the-only-f-22s-achilles-heels-in-a-dogfight-against-4th-gen-fighter-jets/Both articles based on the same “Engagement” data from the referenced Pre-Red Flag training. Based on what I have read (That means this is my opinion…) the idea behind the EF design as far as WVR dogfights is to survive, maneuver, and win a potentially extended engagement. While the F22 is “designed” to end a WVR fight quick and avoid a lengthy WVR engagement which could expose some of the weaknesses that accompany overuse of things like thrust-vectoring. Please read that carefully, as I am NOT saying the F22 relies on its superior BVR capabilities (That’s not what this post was about), I am saying even in a dogfight the idea is to use the maneuverability advantages provided by thrust vectoring to use a shoot first and better hope you don’t miss approach, because recovering from overuse/misuse of thrust vectoring is likely to be costly in both performance and SA. It’s also worthy to note there are other advantages the F22 has in close range which aren’t discussed in any of these articles because of their sensitive nature, and likely were not taken into account during the mock-engagements.
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When I have the time I may upload my EF flight model that I made for F4, with iterations being released for many flavours such as SP4, FF2-5, OF. The latest one was never released. It’s not perfect, but should be more realistic and less over maneuvrable.
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rafale turns better than the raptor
A simple video footage means nothing about the superiority or the non superiority of a fighter jet.
However … it leads into some nice and funny reading
And about the challenge Typhoon vs the rest of the world … I only know this :
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However … it leads into some nice and funny reading
“The F-22 is clearly not in a position for a gun or a fox2 kill.” got from that link above.
This seems to be BS and biased.
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… what I prefer is the:
I saw the original full gun cam record … and it is conformal to the pic above. Additionally … IIRC, the red cross is not the TOO CLOSE warning for weapon like in our F-16 HUD but rather the RECOVER or ATTITUDE warning displayed on the SFO page.
And because I am still amazed by the Typhoon’s design, here is a nice pic of a EF2000 taken from the Rafale cockpit: http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/sampaix/4188952622_9de8a26779.jpg
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I’m searching my old Efa recordings against Rafale from Saint Dizier. I’m sorry but in clean configuration of both aircraft, Rafale has nothing to do. The only dogfights we lose was carrying underwing against clean Rafales.