Read the Manual eh?? = useless so far… because I did not look hard enough
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Murphy,
Wpn td/bp stands for threshold detection / bypass and is a mode switch for the aim9 sidewinder. Normally this setting is done in the MFD SMS page when aim9 is selected in AA mastermode. BP is default. So it does not help to have this as a primary button, I’d recommend sticking to the HOTAS keys in the keyfile and put those on your flightgear. This and more is written in the manual so there is some truth to people refering to it.
Cheers,
Scub -
Don’t get caught up with random callback names you see in that menu, most are useless. Like I said in your other thread, only map the real hotas commands to your stick, which I gave in the page manuals, ignore absolutely everything else. That one is not in the real hotas, so ignore it because it does not matter to have mapped (that is why you didn’t find it). Forget about padlock, it is strange (bugged? remnant of falcon4.0?) and anyways disabled in the more serious multiplayer servers. Go to the pages I gave and map Those, forget all the other silliness in the keyfile browser. Maybe if you build a full scale cockpit, you can sift through that.
Edit: beat by Scuby
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SPACE BAR = wpn-missile td/bp Huh? I wonder what that is.? What’s td/bp stand for? Ok… lets go RTFM and find out what that means.
The fact is, most people won’t answer you cos most people don’t know what td/bp actually means. I sure as hell don’t. But does it really matter what it means? Does it make your (and by your I am addressing everyone and no-one in particular) experience of the simulator any greater? I would venture the answer to that is No.
All I need to know is, when I hit the spacebar, the bombs fall and the missile shoot.
What you have to appreciate Murphy, and this goes for all walks of life and not just a bunch of nerds who like to pretend we are all fighter pilots, is that not everyone will share or appreciate your desire to know the ins and outs of everything, but at the same time cannot help themselves by getting involved and trying to make oneself look smarter than they actually are. Shit, am even guilty of it myself…!
Bottom line is, is you struggle to find what something means or how something works and get no joy, move on. Don’t waste time pondering it, especially if it’s going to make no difference to your overall enjoyment of the sim. But more than anything, don’t get mad about it - it’s just not worth the hassle!
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Murphy,
Wpn td/bp stands for threshold detection / bypass and is a mode switch for the aim9 sidewinder. Normally this setting is done in the MFD SMS page when aim9 is selected in AA mastermode. BP is default. So it does not help to have this as a primary button, I’d recommend sticking to the HOTAS keys in the keyfile and put those on your flightgear. This and more is written in the manual so there is some truth to people refering to it.
Cheers,
ScubI wish everyone would provide answers like this… Thank you very very very much…
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Agree with Scubs. It all there. If you’re looking for something specific I would recommend a search within the PDF’s in parts. ie, search for Wpn, TD, and BP separately if you have to.
Edit: A few clicks searching for TD and it popped right up.
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Don’t get caught up with random callback names you see in that menu, most are useless. Like I said in your other thread, only map the real hotas commands to your stick, which I gave in the page manuals, ignore absolutely everything else. That one is not in the real hotas, so ignore it because it does not matter to have mapped (that is why you didn’t find it). Forget about padlock, it is strange (bugged? remnant of falcon4.0?) and anyways disabled in the more serious multiplayer servers. Go to the pages I gave and map Those, forget all the other silliness in the keyfile browser. Maybe if you build a full scale cockpit, you can sift through that.
Edit: beat by Scuby
Ok! Now that will help point me in the right direction… Until I get my head tracking thingy going (parts are on their way!) , padlock is the only way I have to keep an eye on the bad guy. Trying to pan in 3D to keep an eye on the enemy is next to impossible…
If you knew me better, you would not have thrown in the comment about the full scale cockpit. Don’t temp me… LOL
Thanks for the help…
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TD. Wait. Automatic uncaging of missles???
WHAT SORCERY IS THIS!!!
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Don’t get caught up with random callback names you see in that menu, most are useless. Like I said in your other thread, only map the real hotas commands to your stick, which I gave in the page manuals, ….
He’s been told this multiple times (by you, me and perhaps others), but obviously hasn’t studied it. Otherwise he’d know ‘how to lock a target’. Instead he continues to be distracted by esoteric legacy commands, despite advice to the contrary.
Perhaps RTFM isn’t always the best answer, but ‘do my homework for me’ isn’t an appropriate expectation either.
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The fact is, most people won’t answer you cos most people don’t know what td/bp actually means. I sure as hell don’t. But does it really matter what it means? Does it make your (and by your I am addressing everyone and no-one in particular) experience of the simulator any greater? I would venture the answer to that is No.
All I need to know is, when I hit the spacebar, the bombs fall and the missile shoot.
What you have to appreciate Murphy, and this goes for all walks of life and not just a bunch of nerds who like to pretend we are all fighter pilots, is that not everyone will share or appreciate your desire to know the ins and outs of everything, but at the same time cannot help themselves by getting involved and trying to make oneself look smarter than they actually are. Shit, am even guilty of it myself…!
Bottom line is, is you struggle to find what something means or how something works and get no joy, move on. Don’t waste time pondering it, especially if it’s going to make no difference to your overall enjoyment of the sim. But more than anything, don’t get mad about it - it’s just not worth the hassle!
Slight misunderstanding… I’m not trying to figure out every detail… Just to get the basics working at this point… Seems that my problem is that just trying to get the basics working so I can reliably track, lock and engage a bad guy is somewhat of a challenge.
About the only thing I can reliable do at this point is join “Instant Action”, press D to get my eegs funnel going, and shoot down anyone within range. I have no problems placing the bad guy inside my eegs and my HOTAS trigger does fire the gun… I also learned to press “M” to select a missile but it won’t fire… I did get a missile to fire once but no idea how I did it.
Had a bit of a confusing episode in dealing with multiple keyfiles when I first started… had no idea there was more than one… finally selected the BMS file. Still trying to get things to work.
Oh, I can toggle my air brakes too and just today I figured out how to get one of my rotational knobs (are they potentiometers?) on my HOTAS throttle (x35T) to act as a zoom control… (very useful!)…
Perhaps I’m going about this the wrong way… Maybe, instead of going through the keyfile list and trying to figure out what I should or shouldn’t use, I should instead grab one of your guys HOTAS files to see what you’ve mapped to your sticks and grab what I think is most important and modify it to my ancient stick… At least that sounds easier than trying to decode the entire list of commands in my setup.
Its going to be Christmas before I see an X-55 Rhino or anything similar…
Big thanks for your help… I absolutely loved playing Falcon 3.0 so you have no idea how much I appreciate your help in getting 4.0 going. Its about 1000x more complex…
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I saw a picture of a x35t, it looks lacking in buttons, maybe that is part of the problem. I use the cougar, so giving my mappings wont help, because it is exactly the same as the real f16, nothing extra, is the same as you see in the manual picture.
http://www.careve.toucansurf.com/NeoX45profilehaha.jpg
This is old bad picture with wrong callback named, but gives idea.
It looks like the stick TargetManagementSubsystem TMS and DisplayManagementSubsystem Dms hats exist on yours. So map those. TMS (now i realize the niceness of acronyms) is the left hat, DMS is the bottom hat. Map the SecondTriggerDetent to the trigger, unless you have 2 stage trigger. Make the top rotary the RangeKnob, make the other one the Antenna elevation. You have two rockers on the throttle, pick one for speedbrake and one for dogfight/AirToAirMasterMode switch. If the middle finger button on the back side is a hat, map it to the uhf, vhf and iff in and out according to the manual. The middle red button map it to pickle. (I think you wondered why an aim120 wouldnt launch, you got to hold pickle button same as real life for like 1.5sec while data uploads to missile. If you didnt know these types of things somehow already, you maybe got looots of reading and forum questions ahead if you dont plan on doing training with some people or something). Map the NoseWheelSteering/MissileStep/AirToAirRefuelDoorDisconnect button to Fire B, and make Fire A the pinky button. Make an extra button on the throttle the MissileCage/Uncage button, and another the CursorZero. Most of these are prefixed HotasDmsRight or similar, OR as SimWheelBrakes (probably just use keyboard ‘k’ unless you got rudder pedals).
Now that should be everything, i did from memory on my phone at 2 am, so maybe 1 switch is missing. Map that, and you are good to go really until you get some replica stick, or another saitek.
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So this is why I get a bad attitude about things… People tell me to RTFM… So, I’m trying to program my HOTAS setup and I’m in the game going through all the listed commands in the setup>controller section and I decide I have to start somewhere so I just pick a random command…. SPACE BAR = wpn-missile td/bp Huh? I wonder what that is.? What’s td/bp stand for? Ok… lets go RTFM and find out what that means.
Open up the BMS manual and do a search for “wpn-missile td/bp” and it finds NOTHING… I go two other manuals (which one I’m supposed to follow is still a mystery to me)… and I get zero search results.
Well Sir,
Your statement is wrong and obviously you didn’t look hard enough
May we ask that before saying our thousands of hours of work on the manuals are useless you do your homework correctly please?BMS 4.32 Dash -1 page 80:
OSB #18 is dependent on missile type.
For radar missiles it sets the PRF range and toggle between unknown, large, medium and
small targets. Large is used for bombers, medium is used fighters and small is used to
intercept missiles (not implemented)
For IR missiles; it toggles from BP (Bypass) to TD (Threshold detection) When set the TD the
missile will automatically uncage. When set to BP the missile needs to be uncaged manually.So keep RTFM
Oh, And I took the liberty to change your topic title so it is now more correct
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So this is why I get a bad attitude about things… People tell me to RTFM… So, I’m trying to program my HOTAS setup and I’m in the game going through all the listed commands in the setup>controller section and I decide I have to start somewhere so I just pick a random command…. SPACE BAR = wpn-missile td/bp Huh? I wonder what that is.? What’s td/bp stand for? Ok… lets go RTFM and find out what that means.
Open up the BMS manual and do a search for “wpn-missile td/bp” and it finds NOTHING… I go two other manuals (which one I’m supposed to follow is still a mystery to me)… and I get zero search results.
It’s not in the BMS-Manual.pdf but it is in BMS-Dash1.pdf, page 80. Of course you will not find any result with that exact specific phase in quotes. In a more sane world you’d open keystrokes.key and find that “Wpn-Missile TD/BP” label corresponds to SimToggleMissileTDBPUncage callback. Then you would search the manuals for that callback because callback name is an exact reference and not the particular phrasing that any person wanted to use that day. Then you would find in a manual containing detailed descriptions of what every callback does. Except this manual doesn’t exist at least for more obscure callbacks like this is one.
With knowledge you find that SimToggleMissileTDBPUncage is a crap command. It doesn’t exist in the F-16C/D and using it can cause bugs in the game code. The reason is because to change the TD/BP option in an F-16C/D you must go to a certain MFD page and press a gray button around the MFD bezel to change it. There is no single button which does this function that works at all times without regard for avionics context. Some joker made this callback sometime between 1998 and 2015 for some reason but it is a pitfall created that seems correct/important but actually should be ignored. The number of people in BMS who can explain TD/BP and tell you how BMS isn’t 100% accurate I think you can count without taking off your shoes. There are all sorts of fake-arcade commands from the less sophisticated past of Falcon which makes up a minefield to the new user concludes everything which is is made for a good reason. Falcon has a lot of trash in the alleys. BombPairRelease and SimNextAGWeapon are good examples of callbacks that will trick you if you go about it the wrong way.
And it is going about it the wrong way to try to learn BMS first and apply it without troubles the next day. It takes 17 years to make Falcon BMS and it probably takes 17 years to learn. Instead it’s best to approach BMS as flying a real F-16 and then working the chain from real control to virtual control. This mindset helps steer a narrower focused road more direct to being effective without learning every dark corner of the software. Of course this shifts the problem from “I don’t have a game manual” to “I don’t have real pilot manual.” To that I say there are real manuals out there available and also the original Falcon 4.0 manual is a pretty good crash course on a good baseline. Much of it is written by LtCol. (I think) Bonnani who is a real F-16 IP so every word is crystal clear which can’t be said most if not all fan-made documents.
To date, I still can not figure out how to lock onto an enemy aircraft or get my padlock to reliably follow it in a dogfight.
Do you guys have some super secret instructions you hand out… you know… the type of documentation that tells you what commands do what?Lock, but with what? missile? radar? TGP? padlock? For basic weapons employment there is always how to shoot the weapon, how to operate the sensor (usually radar), and finally how to shoot the weapon with the sensor (radar). Invariably new pilots jump directly to the 3rd item which is the most complex as it is a combination of weapon mechanics and radar mechanics. My advice is to learn them separately: turn the radar switch off and learn every weapon then learn the whole radar without firing a shot. Once you know much about both things individually then combine them. The FCR in the F-16 is probably the single most complicated component to use.
BMS 2 Manual.pdf tries to have a list of callbacks with descriptions but obviously it is not current and has several empty cells. The truth is there is no magic book you read from page 1 to the end and you have all the knowledge with no problems. Maybe someday someone will write one but today it does not exist. You will want X result but don’t know how or what key or what manual to look in or what this acronym means. This is a struggle you must accept. You will read a paragraph without knowing what one word means and spend the rest of the day looking it up. Such is the life of a pilot.
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Don’t mess with Red Dog. He will take you down……:munch:
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I can tell you right now that I have been in and out of Falcon 4.0 for over 10 years. I get frustrated and just stop messing with it for months until I miss it and then get back into it. To this day I still do not know a lot about the radar system. My advise is to not try to learn everything in one day or even one week. It is going to take a lot of time and a lot of practice. If it were easy there would not be a 700 page manual attached, along with two or three other manuals. Just be calm and patient. I have found that people in here and in Viperpit are always willing to help you if you show that you are also willing to help them. I have asked a lot of dumb questions and I don’t ever remember anyone telling me to RTFM. This is because I am always willing to help others if I have the knowledge. If you show that you want to help and want to be friends with others in here, then that will go a long way. If you come in with an angry sounding post that seems to be pointed at other members, you might not find the help you are looking for. So let’s just all relax and be friends please….:drink:
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If I had just joined yesterday, I would have thought your post was an attempt at humor, that said, my experience in getting help in this forum understanding some of the abbreviations and terminology has taught me otherwise.
Some members here are very helpful, others like yourself, not so much… It makes me wonder though, if you don’t want to answer my question, why post in my thread? Just so you can poke me with a stick?? Not very helpful.Just to provide a bit of reference, I was in the Air Force… during my training in the field of metrology I had the opportunity to work with some pretty complex equipment, some of which was designed to test, calibrate and repair nuclear weapons, B52 bombers and KC-135 tankers and all of their associated systems… I also worked on something called a Loran-C network which was the predecessor to what’s now known as the Global Positioning System. My point is that I have plenty of experience with technical manuals and learning how to operate the systems they are written for. I can tell you one thing, if every time a student asked for help and a teacher’s standard response was “read the manual”, you’d be speaking Russian today.
This Falcon 4.0 BMS simulator game does a fantastic job when one is in the cockpit doing their thing. The graphics and feel are absolutely amazing… Now imagine a new pilot in training sitting in a classroom and he asks a teacher a question about something…. Do you think the teacher’s standard reply is “read the manual” ???
As someone who has spent a lot of time in classrooms learning a lot of complex stuff, I can tell you for a fact the answer is no. Teachers who “are here to help” will usually provide an answer to the question, not avoid the question with “read the manual”…So now let me say this… and this is not attitude, this is fact. When someone comes to this forum, frustrated and tired of trying to figure something out, and you tell them to “Read the Manual”, or in some other forum members language, “Read the F’ing Manual”, you are no help… in fact, at that point, you become part of the problem as a hindrance, and a hindrance with a bad attitude.
You could have just told me what it stands for… one single line of text… very quick, very easy, no need for childish dictionary references or comments attempting to show me how high your horse is…
I very much appreciate those folks who provide actual help… and I don’t forget the debt I owe to those who provide help and support when needed… My life philosophy says “never forget where you came from and who was with you along the way” It also says “Never forget who stepped on you”
Please, if you don’t want to help me, don’t participate in my threads…
Nice dude, quite the experienced one……
Just for reference then, I am a qualified bogan, beach bum and beer guzzler…but my grasp of the English language is fair enough to understand that you asked only one legitimate question in your original post, every thing else before it was a storyline.
"Do you guys have some super secret instructions you hand out… you know… the type of documentation that tells you what commands do what?
I answered it, not assumed what the real question was but I am sorry you consider that a hindrance.
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So this is why I get a bad attitude about things… People tell me to RTFM… So, I’m trying to program my HOTAS setup and I’m in the game going through all the listed commands in the setup>controller section and I decide I have to start somewhere so I just pick a random command…. SPACE BAR = wpn-missile td/bp Huh? I wonder what that is.? What’s td/bp stand for? Ok… lets go RTFM and find out what that means.
OK, well it seems to me that you’re trying somewhat of a ‘bottom-up’ approach: setting something up by digging through abbreviations without any knowledge what it actually means and does in the sim and, by actually understanding it piece by piece (or trying to), you aim at grasping the whole picture.
Do you guys have some super secret instructions you hand out… you know… the type of documentation that tells you what commands do what?
How about going ‘top-down’? Check out some Youtube tutorials and take notes. It’s certainly not the ‘academic’ way of learning the sim, but by that you’ll understand the F-16 fundamentals, get an idea for which essential key commands to look for and worth setting up on your HOTAS (TMS, DMS, etc), and most importantly leads to motivating moments of success quickly.
Practise A-G training missions - try to kill something that doesn’t move. Next, try to kill something in the air that cannot defend itself (like an Air lifter) in instant action. Again, you’ll find tons of video material how to use the FCR in AA engagements. In the process, the manuals make more and more sense - top-to-bottom. If the switchology is difficult to master during the first training flights, use the Freeze pause mode.
And last but not least: Have fun all the way and the sim will grow on you. It’s actually that simple.
Eggs
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So this is why I get a bad attitude about things… People tell me to RTFM… So, I’m trying to program my HOTAS setup and I’m in the game going through all the listed commands in the setup>controller section and I decide I have to start somewhere so I just pick a random command…. SPACE BAR = wpn-missile td/bp Huh? I wonder what that is.? What’s td/bp stand for? Ok… lets go RTFM and find out what that means.
Another way to ask (which will be probably more efficient to get a quick and good answers), saving time to ppl answering you and providing you some benefits is rather than asking : How to … What is … etc … at the first shot (of course, after reading/searching in all the available manuals and in the forum using the magic search button), ask: Please,where can I find info about …
And you will probable get some answer like: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?22989-Unwanted-Chaff-Flare-dispensing&p=333083&viewfull=1#post333083
Advantage: you will be able to retrieve the info later, and will lean other things in the same time.
Do you guys have some super secret instructions you hand out… you know… the type of documentation that tells you what commands do what?
Click here -> BMS-Secret-Knowledge-Collection
If you still need explanations because you didn’t understood, of course, you are welcome here. But not every days to ask things covered by some document present in your install, and not if you didn’t made the effort to search into it carefully.
Please understand that PPL can’t spend all their free time explain things here … and maybe consider virtual squadron to find ppl to help you and teach you in live MP sessions.
And you are here since September 11th, 2015, maybe consider also that trying to know everything about combat and weapons systems in less than one month is unachievable. Take your time. It take months/years before being able to "handle F4BMS “correctly”, it is normal that you are a bit lose at the beginning.
EDIT: Additionally to manuals present into your Docs folder … here is a nice list of possible good sources of informations.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?5649-Articles-on-this-site
Yeah … agree … it is a lot. But who said that F4BMS is a simple shooter video game!?!
Re-Edit: Look:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=333137
Can someone explain how to use FLIR and for what it’s good for in bms?
or where do i find the manual?
thanks in advance
That is the right attitude
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murphy
we told you many timesBMS is not falcon3 you cant not just press keys to make it work.
this is no more 90’s sim.
you need to understand to use your aircraft like real pilots do.
use your coxkpit and Hotas and just program your hotas like the real.
stop touching your keyboard and learn to use TMS, CMS and DMS
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Personally, I found that 50% of enjoying this sim comes from reading the manuals and documentation provided, on those sweaty tube rides to and from work, or anytime I get a moment (incl. those shopping trips when I’m waiting for my missus to come out of the changing room ). My world certainly does not revolve around BMS, and frankly I can understand that some do not have the time nor will to do so. However, you’re missing out on so much valuable information that without a doubt augments the entire Falcon experience and makes this sim what it is today. From the lack of posts on this forum (passive user), I think it is evident that resources bundled with the sim do a great job. Keep at it man and you shall be rewarded!
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Just for reference then, I am a qualified bogan, beach bum and beer guzzler…
Well that’s my new word for the day :mrgreen:
Impressive qualifications; Aussie further education?