Bullseye
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After just reading this its made me think. When i get a vector to threat reading from AWACS, it looks easier to find that threat using the HSD rather than the FCR. I dunno, what do you guys do when finding a threat in relation to bullseye? do you just use your FCR cursor?
Good Day, CNS.
Using Bullseye gets better with practice. For me at least, whether to use FCR or HSD depends on where I’m at in the mission. If I’m ingressing and want an overview, I like to use the HSD so I can see where the threat is in relation to my flight path. Once in closer I switch over the the FCR as SOI. -
I was trying out the Bullseye Trainer ( http://www.185th.co.uk/squad_info/training/basic_n&b.htm ) the other day. It goes way too fast for me (you have to understand ownship position, heading, bandit position, and then decide what action in what sector) even on the easy setting. But it makes a great random number generator to practice. I got pretty good at looking at the BZ+heading information and putting my fingers up in the air around an imaginary BZ point facing the right way even after 10-15 min of practice. On my more ambitious runs I got 1-2 correct maneuver responses in a row.
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Cant help much with that. I dont do math, but I just sorta “get it” for those calls. Im BE 130/40 miles, I get a call “BANDSAW, SINGLE GROUP BE 240/30 MILES, 23 THOUSAND HOSTILE TRACK SOUTH” and I just guesstimate really. Id turn and head west. Mentally, I plot me from BE on a polar graph, and the other guy from BE on the same graph, and graphically subtract my vector from his. No numbers so its a rough guess, but it works fairly quickly to get a heading and range estimate. When Im roughly in the right direction, the FCR cursors give me actual numbers that I can match to the contacts.
That’s what I’m looking to get to…I know there’s a way to look at the display and just “get it”…I haven’t gotten there yet. I’ve gotten close, when I’m head down and can cross-check the compass rose on the HSI…so I’m anticipating things getting far easier once my pit is built. I have the EHSI from Pegasus, and it’s a gem.
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Fastest, most intuitive way is mental picture from two BZ points. It’s not math as a picture to very rough results. Quick what is BZ 289 75 from BZ 013 166? West 75 from North 150, South South West for 200 miles (distance going to be between 166 and 166+75, so ~200).
How close is that? 172 at 219°. Close enough to point at it. More precise? That’s a plotting board (GIS “maneuvering board”) or the pencil trick with the HSI but that’s mucho slower. It’s the kind of tricks developed for what’s known as point to point navigation around VORs and TACANs.
That’s all I want to know, which way to point. Once I get scan volume on then I know where/how to steer - for that I only need to figure heading/“radial” diff and which direction gets directed to target quickest - I don’t really have to care about distance for that. My problem is that I can’t see the entire pit…and I’m purposely not desk flying just now so I don’t re-train my scan discipline. I’m building a full pit - once I have that done I expect it all to get easier.
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I did this:
http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y477/ASharpe/101_0296_zps572dae3a.jpg
If you look carefully, there’s a transparency there with a Bullseye drawn on it (on the backside) with permanent marker. Before flight, I check the Bullseye location and then draw my flight plan (roughly to scale) on the Bullseye transparency over the map. Now, when I get a bearing relative to bullseye, I just drop a dot on the map with a dry erase marker. And, by knowing what steerpoint I am at/heading towards/flying from I can easily see the relative position of the contact.
YES - I have seen pilots use this in RL…and it’s what I use mentally, and why having the HSI in my scan is such a big help. I just imagine bull at the center of the HSI instead of the airplane and cross-check the HSD - this gives me an actual visual picture I can figure my turn direction from. I don’t care about distance until I’ve competed my turn and am on the ingress - I just want to know which way to turn to get there quickest. Having both the HSI and HSD to look at together does it for me.
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I was trying out the Bullseye Trainer ( http://www.185th.co.uk/squad_info/training/basic_n&b.htm ) the other day. It goes way too fast for me (you have to understand ownship position, heading, bandit position, and then decide what action in what sector) even on the easy setting. But it makes a great random number generator to practice. I got pretty good at looking at the BZ+heading information and putting my fingers up in the air around an imaginary BZ point facing the right way even after 10-15 min of practice. On my more ambitious runs I got 1-2 correct maneuver responses in a row.
Cant help much with that. I dont do math, but I just sorta “get it” for those calls. Im BE 130/40 miles, I get a call “BANDSAW, SINGLE GROUP BE 240/30 MILES, 23 THOUSAND HOSTILE TRACK SOUTH” and I just guesstimate really. Id turn and head west. Mentally, I plot me from BE on a polar graph, and the other guy from BE on the same graph, and graphically subtract my vector from his. No numbers so its a rough guess, but it works fairly quickly to get a heading and range estimate. When Im roughly in the right direction, the FCR cursors give me actual numbers that I can match to the contacts.
My original question at post #31 of this thread had to do with asking for a mathematical solution to creating tables for distances from ownship to target greater than 20 miles, as described in www.combatsim.com/htm/aug99/bullseye2.htm. My question was never answered (but I did appreciate the work you two guys did in response). Anyway, the description of the Bullseye Trainer described how a bullseye drawn on a piece of plastic could eliminate complex mathematical calculations when the distance was greater than 20 miles. Bullseye Trainer looks like a good tool to get good at making use of the bullseye in Falcon.
Thanks for this Fix to Fix description. It is also shown in a BMS Falcon 4 video by John Giannellis at
, beginning at 3:20. -
Besides mental training, for quick in-cockpit orientation, I use one of the available HSD lines to paint a N/S and E/W cross.
when the BE is visible on HSD,
it improves my general SA about where a given BE position.Disregard the line you see on top of the HSD. Normally, when I use positions close to the map borders to draw the line, that to line is not visible on HSD.
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VERY nice idea!!!
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When setting up a TE and you right-click on the map, what is the option “Set Bullseye” for?
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You can move it around (same in campaign). BZ is also set by STPT 25 position in the avionics. Of course if you change your STPT 25 position the AI will continue to refer to the old true BZ position but your displays will reference the other place.
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@jc1:
When setting up a TE and you right-click on the map, what is the option “Set Bullseye” for?
You can move it around (same in campaign). BZ is also set by STPT 25 position in the avionics. Of course if you change your STPT 25 position the AI will continue to refer to the old true BZ position but your displays will reference the other place.
Thanks. Now why would you change STPT 25?
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IRL, you do not have only one bulls on a combat theater. On a theater like the North Korea, I can easily imagine 10 to 20 different bulls.
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…what Dee-Jay says…+1.
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IRL, you do not have only one bulls on a combat theater. On a theater like the North Korea, I can easily imagine 10 to 20 different bulls.
…what Dee-Jay says…+1.
@jc1:
Thanks. Now why would you change STPT 25?
In real life, how are the bullsyes distinguished from one another? In BMS, if I set a new bullseye, does the FCR and HSD depict the original Kaesong bullseye and the new bullseye? Also in BMS, why set a new bullseye if AWACS doesn’t know it?
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By coded name I would think.
No, if you move STPT 25 then in-cockpit display moves BZ indication to new 25 position.
AI do know new BZ location… if you set it in 2D map.
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… AI do know new BZ location… if you set it in 2D map.
What’s the reason for setting the new bullseye? Also, how do you interpret the tick mark that shows on the bearing and range of the bullseye?
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If you are referring to the little mark on the circle in the bottom left corner of the radar or HSD, it points toward bullseye. The original falcon manual describes bullseye on page 21-15 (432).
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@jc1:
What’s the reason for setting the new bullseye?
Imagine an MP session with human AWACS and several packages working on very different areas. If one bulls is located in Haeju, and you are working over Chonngjin, you might be interested by another bulls located closer to your area of interest.
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If you are referring to the little mark on the circle in the bottom left corner of the radar or HSD, it points toward bullseye. The original falcon manual describes bullseye on page 21-15 (432).
Thanks
@Frederf:By coded name I would think.
No, if you move STPT 25 then in-cockpit display moves BZ indication to new 25 position.
AI do know new BZ location… if you set it in 2D map.
What I’m hearing is that AI knows BZ location if it’s set in UI(2D map), but AI does not know the BZ that is set in the pit at stpt 25 during flight, although AI still knows the BZ set at UI. That leaves 2 questions.
1. So why set a new BZ in the pit at stpt 25 during flight?
Edit:
Just saw post #54. What is your answer if in single player, not MP?2. If you set a BZ in the pit at stpt 25 during flight, which BZ, the UI one or the new one, shows up on the HSD and FCR?
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Just to be clear (I’m about 95% sure), the BE set in the UI is stpt 25 on the data cartridge. IOW, if you change stpt 25 in the pit, it will change THE Bullseye for you (and anyone else who makes the same change).
Why you’d set the BE in the UI, presumably at briefing, and change it in the pit, I don’t know.