CCIP seemingly can't get BLU anti runway bombs on target
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I can see issues with using ripple in CCIP if making a low pass using BLU-107’s. I would think if the spacing was large that the first bomb would end up being behind the aircraft and not be able to hit there? Maybe best to drop them with multiple presses of the pickle button one at a time.
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Perhaps it is better to think of a theoretical HUD picture where instead of a single CCIP pipper displayed there are 3: first, middle, and last. Imagine we are dropping three bombs each corresponding to these three CCIP pippers. The pipper lowest on the HUD corresponds to releasing the earliest bomb and represents the impact point. One bomb spacing farther away the second pipper shows the second bomb’s impact point which will be released a short time after the first. The highest pipper on the HUD is the last bomb and is released last.
Imagine our practice bombing range has 3 color-painted shacks at exactly the same spacing as we have set in the profile. As we roll in the first (bottom) pipper lines up on the near red shack, second (middle) pipper lines up on the blue shack, and the third (top) pipper lines up on the far green shack. If we press and hold the weapons release button when all pippers are on all shacks immediately the first bomb is released and then the second and then the third in order.
But we don’t release any bombs. We take a dry pass and go around, changing back to a single bomb and therefore one pipper displayed. We roll in again using the same parameters as before. The single pipper we see now will line up with the red shack. The additional bombs and pippers are not present. This pipper represents the impact if we release right now our single bomb.
We don’t release again and go around. We configure back to three bomb release again only this time we choose an avionics option to hide the bottom and top pipper from view. Despite the three bombs we only see the pipper displayed for the #2 release. We roll in again exactly as before and align the middle pipper over the middle blue shack. The first pipper is also aligned over the near red shack but we cannot see it as we selected it to be hidden. This bottom pipper which we cannot see represents where a bomb will impact if released right now. The middle visible pipper is for the second bomb. And the top invisible pipper is for the third bomb.
We notice a difference between the 2nd and 3rd pass despite there being only one pipper visible that on the 2nd pass configured for a single release the pipper was in a different position than in the 3rd. The single release pipper was visibly over the red shack because that’s the impact point for releasing one bomb immediately. The last pass the pipper was farther up the HUD over the blue shack which represents the second bomb impact. When pickle is pressed a bomb is released immediately but it isn’t headed toward the middle visible pipper, but instead toward the invisible bottom pipper.
This is how you can have a bomb drop immediately on pickle but the pipper shown represents the middle of the bomb train.
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Can you confirm this by dropping 1 bomb only?
What changed in 4.33 regarding CCIP is that when more than bomb are to be rippled in the coming drop, the pipper doesn’t point anymore to where the first bomb will hit but it’s (Realistically) points to the middle of the bombs train. So if by any chance you are dropping many bombs in ripple and especially with large distance between each drop then it could be that some bombs will miss the target, fall short or long of where the pipper is, that’s why with BLU-107s you should always be aligned with the runway direction.
I have found regardless of fuse setting the BLU107s don’t work when I was dropping them the other day, in 4.32 there was a thread on a similar problem with durandels but I recall in 4.32 I never came across the problem. BTW IRL aligning on the runway in airfield denial with any sort of weapon like the BLU107 is suicide as the AAA will be expecting that sort of approach.
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I have found regardless of fuse setting the BLU107s don’t work when I was dropping them the other day, in 4.32 there was a thread on a similar problem with durandels but I recall in 4.32 I never came across the problem. BTW IRL aligning on the runway in airfield denial with any sort of weapon like the BLU107 is suicide as the AAA will be expecting that sort of approach.
It worked quite nice in RL in iraq
But risk is high, so surprise is key here.
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NP to drop when not aligned to the runway, just then there is no sense to drop a large ripple train right? you would like to put maybe 2 close bombs at the center of the runway.
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Just a quick resurrection of this dead post. So CCIP piper is aiming for the middle of the ripple train while CCRP is aiming for the first target. What happens if I start off in CCIP, put piper at the start of the runway before it is in range then hold down the pickle button and level off? That’s gonna turn CCIP into a CCRP right? Is my first release gonna hit the spot I aimed for (like in CCRP) or it’s gonna land before the aim point (like CCIP)?
Never tried it TBH but I think it’ll be aligned with the CCIP pipper.
I have found regardless of fuse setting the BLU107s don’t work when I was dropping them the other day, in 4.32 there was a thread on a similar problem with durandels but I recall in 4.32 I never came across the problem. BTW IRL aligning on the runway in airfield denial with any sort of weapon like the BLU107 is suicide as the AAA will be expecting that sort of approach.
NP to drop when not aligned to the runway, just then there is no sense to drop a large ripple train right? you would like to put maybe 2 close bombs at the center of the runway.
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Hi,
are you sure about this I-hawk? Is CCIP different than CCRP in regards with ripple settings?
Regards,
FalconeerReason i ask, i just flew a CAS mission in which i dropped 12 Rockeyes in one pass, while having the 1st vehicle locked on in the column. Spacing set to 350ft @ 1250 BA and all bombs found their targets
He most surely is.
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I set
PROF1
SGL or PAIR
200FT
RP 1PROF2
SGL or PAIR
200FT
RP NFor N = 1 no difference is seen between solution PROF1 and PROF2 (I am frozen with no-delay CCIP solution on range target). This is of course expected as they are identical. I try N = 12, big pipper shift! Presumably a 1100’ change! N=11 smaller shift. N=10 smaller still. N=…. N=3 smallest shift.
But N = 2, the pipper does not move at all! PUAC changes (presumably correctly). The 2 weapon release is behaving uniquely possibly not on purpose. For 2 weapon the pipper (and the actual impact point) is first weapon on pipper and second weapon is one spacing downrange regardless of delivery method.
One weapon obviously is on pipper. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 are symmetrically distributed around pipper (any CCIP mode) as expected. For DTOS/CCRP/LADD it is first weapon on DMPI and the rest after.
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But N = 2, the pipper does not move at all! PUAC changes (presumably correctly).
That makes sense yes, think about it
1 Bomb –> bomb goes to pipper normally.
2 bombs --> pipper left in place, but first bomb will hit at (pipper + spacing) and second at (pipper - spacing).
3 bombs --> pipper will shift as now the pipper is telling when the 2nd bomb will hit. -
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The CCIP represent the center of the salvo. So with 4 bomb spacing 150ft, #1 is -300ft, #2 -150ft, #3 +150ft and #4 +300ft.
Nope
With 150 ft spacing and 4 bombs, 1st bomb is at - 225ft, 2nd is at -75ft, 3rd is at +75ft and 4th is at +225ft.
That makes sense yes, think about it
1 Bomb –> bomb goes to pipper normally.
2 bombs --> pipper left in place, but first bomb will hit at (pipper + spacing/2) and second at (pipper - spacing/2).
3 bombs –> pipper will shift as now the pipper is telling when the 2nd bomb will hit.That is what you meant, correct ?
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Nope
With 150 ft spacing and 4 bombs, 1st bomb is at - 225ft, 2nd is at -75ft, 3rd is at +75ft and 4th is at +225ft.
My bad ;).
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BTW IRL aligning on the runway in airfield denial with any sort of weapon like the BLU107 is suicide as the AAA will be expecting that sort of approach.
This is why:
- BLU107 are no longer used.
- In the past when BLU107 (and BAP100) was used, attack doctrine was to be not aligned with runway axis and to perform the pass with 20° - 60° offset with several aircratfs and different DMPIs.
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And by the way, when calculating the spacing, parkings and refueling/arming areas before (or after…) the runaway make for fine bonuses targets…
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If I dive towards the runway, pick the center of the runway, hold pickle then pitch up into a level flight. Would this change of attitude shift my initial aimpoint at the center of the runway? Or once pickle is pressed and held, that spot will be memorized and subsequent bomb drops will be calculated based off that spot?
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It worked quite nice in RL in iraq
But risk is high, so surprise is key here.
No it did not and aircraft were lost and pilots killed or captured, the technique that worked was LGBs from high altitude.
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This is why:
- BLU107 are no longer used.
- In the past when BLU107 (and BAP100) was used, attack doctrine was to be not aligned with runway axis and to perform the pass with 20° - 60° offset with several aircratfs and different DMPIs.
There were several weapons like the BLU107 used back in the day, its still a fun mission using them in the sim but IRL the LGB/JDAM etc does it better.
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+1…can’t remember the last time I used BLU-107s.