Advanced Flight Model for other aircrafts!
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Hi A.S and thanks for the reply!
It would be an honor for me to have an actual pilot testing how the aircraft performs (turn rates, forward accelerations, etc.) according to the CL and CD tables that I can provide (optionally thrust tables). I am a glider pilot myself and I understand quite well too how a fighter aircraft should behave in certain conditions, so if there is someone who might have RL experience flying a fighter plane up to it’s limits (yet not exactly necessarily), he would be a great help for our simulator and I’m willing to share thoughts and help making BMS get better aero tables for all flyable aircraft, at least.
Thanks for giving me a hint of what aircraft might immediately need better aero tables, and indeed the MIG-29A/S, which I’ve been thinking about for quite a while, would need to get more realistic lift and drag tables, so when a Falcon driver would meet an AI MIG-29A/S or an opponent player MIG-29, he or they should get a more realistic experience.
I’ll start working on both the MIG-29A and S versions asap and come back with the final charts (as I did with the F-4 and MIG-23) and their specific aero and thrust tables.
Best wishes!
P.S.:About the graphic charts and why do the lift and drag coefs vary the way they do (if some might want to ask): As the aerodynamicists know, the CL does have a law of variation not only with AoA, but also with Mach, and so does the CD, Cm and the other 3 left coefs., and these laws depend on both airfoil section shape as well as the 3D wing’s shape. Now, although these laws/functions of variations might look very similar to one another from different aircraft, their values differ widely as it is clearly noticeable. With these CL and CD variations, the aircraft should be able to experience a more realistic CL increase with Mach (at constant AoA) until a “shock stall” occurs (from where it drops somewhere below the value at Mach 0) and drops before rising back to an X value where the airflow is almost completely supersonic over the wing and also about where the CD might have a peak.
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Been a while since I posted last good to see you all again
MaverickF22 have you tested for departure condition’s? or have any documentation for such planes that you are working on?
Cheers
Steve -
Hi A.S and thanks for the reply!
It would be an honor for me to have an actual pilot testing how the aircraft performs…
I am not MaverickF22. Just 13 years of virtual flying and alot reading and sometimes too much dedication to this hobby ….nothing more.
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@A.S:
I am not MaverickF22. Just 13 years of virtual flying and alot reading and sometimes too much dedication to this hobby ….nothing more.
Hello again A.S,
I can tell about the same of myself too, including that I am an aviation engineer (aerodynamicist) and active glider pilot since 2007 and I’ve started playing Open Falcon (this is what I started with from all other Falcon 4.0 series) since 2006 until today. Very lately though I’ve found the data files and after seeing the aero tables I understood that the game actually listens to that data in order to have the lift, drag, sideforce, etc. simulated on the aircraft and I thought that I could try to give those values a more appropriate/realistic measure and thus contribute to get the Falcon (now BMS) a greater experience from either a real fighter pilot who had flown these planes or to those who are curious how they perform when competing against each other. That’s where the aero tables “win their money” to say it that way and I’m pretty obsessed to have them as accurate as possible and thus be able to smile every time I dogfight against another aircraft and know that it performs just like in reality, or at least very close to it.
Now I’ll keep working on the 29 (mostly when I have the time for it) and can’t wait to bring in it’s updated CL and CD data.
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Hello again A.S,
Now I’ll keep working on the 29 (mostly when I have the time for it) and can’t wait to bring in it’s updated CL and CD data.
nice
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Hello again,
I’ve uploaded the MIG-29A and S data files! The only difference between the 2 is the AoA limiter, otherwise they share the same aero data and engines (I couldn’t find differences on the engine models used between A and S, so it’s possibly the same engine).
As comparison between the initial (default) aero tables and thrust data and the ones calculated, now the MIG-29 has slightly more acceleration, higher drag coef. at higher AoA and a slightly higher lift slope (hence the maximum CL). So, now it’s a bit easier to win a guns only 1vs1 (while flying the F-16C) against a MIG-29 when it turns (due to MIG’s higher speed bleed), but on the vertical fight it’s slightly above the F-16 and can beat it easier than before.
Here are the data files:
Here are the obtained charts:
Take a time to verify how it performs.
Cheers and good day!
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Nice one Maverick.
Having a passion for the SU-27/30 and working long to improve its FM/AFM I look forward to results of your work.
Much Thanks……Shadow
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Hi Shadow,
I’ll find some time to work on the 27 as well. I also love this beautiful fighter, and in fact I love them all, but the Flanker is special. I was already having in plan to put the CFD and equations at work for each flyable plane in BMS, one at a time and now we have a grood priority ahead of all!
I must remind that the general form/shape of the functions (both aero and thrust) like CL vs AoA, CD vs AoA, CL vs CD, CL&CD vs Mach may not provide a mean accuracy with less than 5% error in some cases, yet overall I believe that the aero tables that I can work on will make these birds fly much more like the real ones, at least this is my goal! When I’ll have the computer capability and time (for using powerful CFD software that can “do it all” and depend less on theoretical equations that complete the CFD results in specific areas), I’ll enhance the aero tables from top to bottom again for each aircraft, just to make sure they’re as realistic as possible, but by then only time should tell!
All the best…!
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I’m back with the Su-27 completed and with slightly modified MIG-29 (A&S) for the engine thrust tables!
Here are the data files:
Here are the tables for Su-27:
I only hope I could’ve brought them better (more realistic) than the default values!
Cheers, good day!
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I’m back with the Su-27 completed and with slightly modified MIG-29 (A&S) for the engine thrust tables!
Here are the data files:
Here are the tables for Su-27:
I only hope I could’ve brought them better (more realistic) than the default values!
Cheers, good day!
I simply do not get your thrust char curves. These are MIL and full AB curves of AL-31. They are quite different from yours, especially tghe MIL thrust and full AB above M1.2.
In your chart MIL thrust increases with speed about up to M0.65 then decreasing. In the linked chard thrust decreasing up to ~M0.6 and above that is almost the same.
The thrust values in full AB curves are much higher above M1.1 in your chart than in the reference chart and the shape of curve below M0.5 is totally different.
Where did you find your curves?
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Very interesting thread…I wish I had the skills to deep dive into FM!
Keep up the good work! Good things await for those who endure!
Pepe
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Can you work on the f22 fm afm? I could install the f22 in the new BMS433 but it does not accept the latest fm from432 without CTD…
Regards Metalhead -
I’m back with the Su-27 completed and with slightly modified MIG-29 (A&S) for the engine thrust tables!
Here are the data files:
Here are the tables for Su-27:
I only hope I could’ve brought them better (more realistic) than the default values!
Cheers, good day!
Nice one, I’ll have a look tomorrow.
I look forward to it.
Regards
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Can you work on the f22 fm afm? I could install the f22 in the new BMS433 but it does not accept the latest fm from432 without CTD…
Regards MetalheadDid you add the vapor trails to the FM?
#----------------------------------------------------- # Vapor data #----------------------------------------------------- 0 #Total Number of vapor chains - MUST MATCH THE REAL NUMBER OF CHAINS DEFINED LATER OR YOU'LL GET CTDs! #
Regards
Dave -
No Sir, thanks, i will check it
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I still hope in SU-27 AFM version (advanced, beyond normal AOA flight regimes)… Is it much harder to make it?
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I simply do not get your thrust char curves. These are MIL and full AB curves of AL-31.
http://kepkezelo.com/images/938p9j53uw70sbpmzcew.png
http://kepkezelo.com/images/reodg2e1d59egy7mtbym.pngYou should have a look at 4.33 Su-27 FM…
All these curves (and more) have been injected in the 100% new OFM
The 4.33 performances values (level flight acceleration, sustained turn rates…) fit Su-27 performance manual charts at +/-5% at max (and in general +/-2.5%)
Only fuel flow has not been tuend so accuratly…
So if you want a “better” or “more accurate” Su-27 FM than the 4.33 one, you’ll need to have some evidence of its innacuracy. -
You should have a look at 4.33 Su-27 FM…
All these curves (and more) have been injected in the 100% new OFM
The 4.33 performances values (level flight acceleration, sustained turn rates…) fit Su-27 performance manual charts at +/-5% at max (and in general +/-2.5%)
Only fuel flow has not been tuend so accuratly…
So if you want a “better” or “more accurate” Su-27 FM than the 4.33 one, you’ll need to have some evidence of its innacuracy.I do not understand this comment. Are you saying my reference charts are not valid or you saing BMS4.33 uses these and posted data is inaccurate?
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Any chance this kind of work would fix the broken F-18 flight model if done ? Asking because flying F-18 right now is a pure waste of time, completely OP…
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Join Date Sep 2015 and already trying to piss some one off.
Its easy to be a critique with out showing proof, but don’t bother cause we know its not perfect but still a lot better then it was.
Good Day Sir.