Why Virtual Reality for BMS would improve the experience by order of magnitudes.
-
Sorry, I made a bad analogy. You are correct, this is not about cost. This is about being “fit for purpose.”
If all you’re after is immersion, sure, go ahead, no arguments from me here. But what happens when you need to reference a checklist? Find a frequency for your alternate airfield? Look up the ILS for it? That’s when I see VR as it is now as not “fit for purpose,” the purpose being to help enjoy the sim. Immersion has it’s part, sure, but it’s not all of the sim. At least not for me.
Also, just saying that VR as it is now is not “fit for purpose” doesn’t mean I’m hostile to it, but it also doesn’t mean I need to spend $600+ just to confirm that “it’s not for me.” I have no trouble spending the cash if it’s something I would use, but I don’t want to spend the cash for the pleasure of trying it and selling it on afterwards.
Would the VR be better than a 3-screen setup? I bet it would! And I even stated that I can see it working for things like Elite Dangerous or shooters (like ARMA III). I also stated why it’s “not so much” useful for BMS, particulary for my settings and needs.
If I’m in the market for a fuel-economic road-transportation vehicle, I don’t need to try a mega-yacht to know that the mega-yacht is not really what I’m looking for
As for checking 6 and stuff, maybe dogfighting, I will admit that playing with a VR setup would be really cool as your hand is steady on the HOTAS. Getting to that point…. startup, switch work, operating the ICP, operating the MFDs, setting CMDS program, and so on, well, that, as I said, is where I say the problem is with VR.
If you don’t have a touchscreen or a physical switch-setup pit and routinely use the mouse to aim/click on switches and knobs, then I can see how the jump into VR isn’t very different from what you’re already doing, but with better visuals due to VR.
-
If you don’t have a touchscreen or a physical switch-setup pit and routinely use the mouse to aim/click on switches and knobs, then I can see how the jump into VR isn’t very different from what you’re already doing, but with better visuals due to VR.
Good point, Ice. Further, this isn’t realistic…mouse interactions to touch cockpit knobs and buttons, etc.
-
Its not like your switches move around on their own. If you have a physical cockpit, with switches instead of touchscreens, nothing wrong with using VR with that.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
-
Sorry, I made a bad analogy. You are correct, this is not about cost. This is about being “fit for purpose.”
If all you’re after is immersion, sure, go ahead, no arguments from me here. But what happens when you need to reference a checklist? Find a frequency for your alternate airfield? Look up the ILS for it? That’s when I see VR as it is now as not “fit for purpose,” the purpose being to help enjoy the sim. Immersion has it’s part, sure, but it’s not all of the sim. At least not for me.
Also, just saying that VR as it is now is not “fit for purpose” doesn’t mean I’m hostile to it, but it also doesn’t mean I need to spend $600+ just to confirm that “it’s not for me.” I have no trouble spending the cash if it’s something I would use, but I don’t want to spend the cash for the pleasure of trying it and selling it on afterwards.
Would the VR be better than a 3-screen setup? I bet it would! And I even stated that I can see it working for things like Elite Dangerous or shooters (like ARMA III). I also stated why it’s “not so much” useful for BMS, particulary for my settings and needs.
If I’m in the market for a fuel-economic road-transportation vehicle, I don’t need to try a mega-yacht to know that the mega-yacht is not really what I’m looking for
As for checking 6 and stuff, maybe dogfighting, I will admit that playing with a VR setup would be really cool as your hand is steady on the HOTAS. Getting to that point…. startup, switch work, operating the ICP, operating the MFDs, setting CMDS program, and so on, well, that, as I said, is where I say the problem is with VR.
If you don’t have a touchscreen or a physical switch-setup pit and routinely use the mouse to aim/click on switches and knobs, then I can see how the jump into VR isn’t very different from what you’re already doing, but with better visuals due to VR.
For checklists use directx injected checklists, or a switchable kneeboard mod.
For switches and buttons, you can select a switch using your eyes and click a joystick button for it so a crosshair appears while you select what switch you want. Is even faster than your hands.
-
This post is deleted! -
Its not like your switches move around on their own. If you have a physical cockpit, with switches instead of touchscreens, nothing wrong with using VR with that.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
This is true; however, until the hand/eye coordination is solved with a VR goggle/helmet on, feeling around for switches is also fundamentally unrealistic. Sure, folks my practice lights out procedures, but there’s usually always some source of light. Can you do it or try to do it? Yes. Is it the norm? No.
This will sound as if I’m talking out both sides of my mouth, but most folks can’t afford/store a full-size, physically switchable cockpit either. I went touchscreen for both of these reasons, but it’s as real as I can get for now. VR would be a step backwards, IMO, and I’ve tried it.
db
-
Sure, it would be a step backwards for your touchscreen setup. Not for the guys with a physical setup. If you cant find a switch without looking for it, you are not familiar enough with your pit.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
-
Sure, it would be a step backwards for your touchscreen setup. Not for the guys with a physical setup. If you cant find a switch without looking for it, you are not familiar enough with your pit.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Still requires hand and eye coordination, no matter how little, peripheral as it might be. Same as a car.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
Doesnt need eye coordination. Just hand coordination.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
-
For sim games you´d need a different kind of VR googles that are open at the bottom. With your eyes if you look straight ahead or up you should see the screen.Look down and you should see the outside world (your desk with your input devices, your checklists, ect.
-
I do not think we will have VR implemented soon. Simply because as far as I know, any of our team members are using such device.
-
For sim games you´d need a different kind of VR googles that are open at the bottom. With your eyes if you look straight ahead or up you should see the screen.Look down and you should see the outside world (your desk with your input devices, your checklists, ect.
Which is what I keep saying, thanks for being a second voice! If there is demand out there for it instead of people just writing off VR as not cockpit compatible there could be a market. There are starting to be custom face seals and VR mounts that if we got on the ball could work.
I do not think we will have VR implemented soon. Simply because as far as I know, any of our team members are using such device.
Baby steps, the checklists and such are extra (and I believe not as needed as we sort VR with the real world out), the biggest thing we need for VR is better stereoscopic support in the HUD (which is apparently better than when I tried it years ago), in the mouse cursor (but there is a mental workaround), UI, but most evident in sim is the HMCS I hear.
Demo has 3d glasses which is enough to improve this part.
-
This post is deleted! -
For sim games you´d need a different kind of VR googles that are open at the bottom. With your eyes if you look straight ahead or up you should see the screen.Look down and you should see the outside world (your desk with your input devices, your checklists, ect.
This might be the answer. I would have to really test drive it to ensure the rapidly going back and forth between focal planes would not cause issues (nausea).
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
This might be the answer. I would have to really test drive it to ensure the rapidly going back and forth between focal planes would not cause issues (nausea).
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Switching between the focal planes is what happens IRL The FPV headset that I mentioned earlier is about to be cut down to show this concept when my replacement SSD gets back from Samsung. You will be able to try out the lookdown feature yourself and possibly the 1:1 headtracking if you have a smartphone. It will be a proof of concept that people on VR fence can try for cheap.
-
You would need to couple a headset with a finger touch sensing system so that you could reach out and touch the in cockpit controls. A headset coupled even with a gamepad or other improvisations is not sufficient for a title with complex controls.
-
In my opinion a better solution would be an augmented reality setup rather than full on VR. You would mark a physical boundary around your desk/keyboard/pit that the AR goggles can latch onto to produce effectively a polygon that acts as a cookie cutter on the rendered image. Anything within that polygon comes directly from the real world, anything outside that area comes from the game. Microsoft Holo lens is the kind of thing I’m thinking of but is probably a couple of years away before we’d get something useable.
-
In my opinion a better solution would be an augmented reality setup rather than full on VR. You would mark a physical boundary around your desk/keyboard/pit that the AR goggles can latch onto to produce effectively a polygon that acts as a cookie cutter on the rendered image. Anything within that polygon comes directly from the real world, anything outside that area comes from the game. Microsoft Holo lens is the kind of thing I’m thinking of but is probably a couple of years away before we’d get something useable.
Vive is on the edge of doing that already, it has the holodeck effect on the edges of the play area and has the front camera view with a controller button press. Would not surprise me if those software features are combined into what to describe before 2nd Gen Vive via update.
-
HTC vive has a camera to see real World. I think you could set up it to see your real peeipherals when you go closer or turn down your head x angle… It’s better than oculus for that.
Enviado desde mi D6603 mediante Tapatalk
-
You would need to couple a headset with a finger touch sensing system so that you could reach out and touch the in cockpit controls. A headset coupled even with a gamepad or other improvisations is not sufficient for a title with complex controls.
No, you would not need a “finger touch sensing system.” Yes, a VR headset with a functional HOTAS would be sufficient for BMS, despite your opinion otherwise. A HOTAS by itself is perfectly sufficient for BMS, so what makes you think adding hardware suddenly becomes insufficient?
Oh, bias. Gotcha.