"Read The Manual" replies
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I was wondering if there is an global INDEX that covers all the manuals.
If there is, direct me to it and please ignore the following
I am fairly new to BMS but not to flight/combat sims. I’ve been flying them since they came out on cassette tapes
BMS has a very steep learning curve. To the point where it’s not a game but a full blown true simulator. BMS is so comprehensive that it can compare to what you would have to learn as a new/experienced pilot starting on a new plane. And that takes months of ground school. We’re not talk’n Piper Cubs hereSo let me get to the point.
This “read the manual” phrase concerns me. I was just reading a post from a new comer and he was asking the simple question of (Now I’m totally simplifying this to protect the innocent how to find the key that lowers the gear. Well guess what, he got hammered with a “read the manual” reply. Now before you start thinking of a response, hear me out. I fully understand the frustration of the experienced having to answer this kind of question time and time again, year after year. But it was so obvious as you read on in the post that this person was not just new to Falcon but new to complex flight simulations, new to joystick mappings, new to the use of acronyms and finally, new to BMS. The read the manuals reply can come off as very cold and intimidating to a new comer and discourage them from posting any more questions.
The manuals can be overwhelming, even for the experienced. As you know there are thousands of pages under many different manual titles, and you can easily get lost in them. I would like to suggest a global index as a no reply thread (I think they are called “stickys”) on the forum as a possible alternative to the “read the manual” reply and more importantly, to encourage the use of these wonderful manuals, not just for the newbies, but for everyone.
An example would be:
Q: what does PFLD stand for?Instead of “read the manual”
A: Look under the INDEX on the main forum.INDEX:
PFLD: BMS 4.32 Dash 1… pg 159/3.1.4Q: Why do I keep hearing “PitBull” on the coms?
A: Look under INDEX
INDEX
PITBULL: Joint Brevity Words Publication(APP-07E)…pg 99Well Holy long winded Batman:) Again if there is an INDEX somewhere like that, I hope you didn’t get this far. For the short term maybe the “read the manual” response could be a little more specific as to “which” manual. There are quite a few that BMS so kindly included in the .docs folder.
Thanks for your patience.
Creature
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Each Manual has a Table of Contents or Index already. Why spend more time duplicating that online? Surely it is far quicker to use the resource that you already have in your install than checking again online. Don’t forget you can search any of these documents if you are looking for something specific (e.g. PFLD in the -1, Pitbull in the -34). It takes seconds to open the next one and search if you can’t find what you’re looking for in the manual you have open.
The Manual suite was written to take account of all skill/experience levels and this is explained in the Foreword of each Manual, along with a suggestion of the route to follow through the manuals (i.e. which one first, which one next) for complete novices.
RTFM is indeed not the correct response, though in fairness people usually do reference a specific manual and chapter or page.
The reality as you pointed out already is that there is a steep learning curve. There is also no shortcut to getting the experience and knowledge you need. Using the forum as a crutch is just not going to work in the long run and is just doing yourself and others a disservice. This is why we ask people not to spoonfeed by the way; asking questions if you haven’t read/understood the basics is just going to lead to more questions and probably more confusion.
Of course if you really feel that an online Index is the way forward you are welcome to give it a go. Don’t underestimate the effort of cataloguing and updating the resource to keep up with developments of the sim and all the supporting tools, documentation and other software. We feel that keeping the manuals up to date is sufficiently challenging and time-consuming for a group of volunteers with limited time at their disposal at the moment and that these manuals are sufficiently flexible in how they can be used, searched, printed, read on tablets, read on PCs etc that the barrier to entry for new users should be low enough to ensure that most people will be able to get up in the air and enjoying themselves without too much delay. Obviously those seeking instant-gratification will be put off, but flight simulations have always required a higher level of commitment.
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Foxit or acrobat have both a search which allows really quick to find everything. Without any arrogance or sarcasm from my end, do you use it?
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I’ve always had a problem with the “F” in RTFM. Maybe because English is not my first language and “F” was such a rude word.
While most people are fed up with helping and instead just reply with “RTFM!”, I personally prefer to help a little more by citing page number or topic to look into. I know how sometimes you don’t even know what word to search for; you don’t even know where to start! Again, maybe because English is not my first language and there are so many times that I have to look up words that may best convey my original thought… Personally, I think if all you can say to a newcomer is “RTFM!” then might as well save yourself the effort and do not reply at all. It may take longer, but someone with genuine help will come along eventually to give assistance.
While we’re on the topic, how do I turn on nose wheel steering?
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My understanding is that RTFM means ‘Read The Flight Manual’. And for learning, my personal experience is joining a wing will have you probably going through an IQT course which will take you through all the tactical deployments to make you a good pilot in a matter of weeks under the guidance of a IP (instructor pilot). It’ll have you fighting some other than yourself very quickly
Nose wheel steering is turned on by the ‘NSW A/R Disc’ button. It’s the same function and the same button except when you are WoW (Weight on Wheels -So that means when you are on the TARMAC, or on taxi- ) It’s the nose wheel steering on/off button.
In flight it’s the mssl step switch (‘MSSL STEP SWITCH’) button . Same button, two functions. Check your setup menu in BMS and your controls to find out where it is mapped to. -
Of course if you really feel that an online Index is the way forward you are welcome to give it a go. Don’t underestimate the effort of cataloguing and updating the resource to keep up with developments of the sim and all the supporting tools, documentation and other software. We feel that keeping the manuals up to date is sufficiently challenging and time-consuming for a group of volunteers with limited time at their disposal at the moment and that these manuals are sufficiently flexible in how they can be used, searched, printed, read on tablets, read on PCs that the barrier to entry for new users should be low enough to ensure that most people will be able to get up in the air and enjoying themselves without too much delay. Obviously those seeking instant-gratification will be put off, but flight simulations have always required a higher level of committment.
DarkMan: The effort put into those manuals is above and beyond. My post is to get people INTO those manuals that so many of you worked very hard to put together for us.
If I come up with any ideas I will let you know (not being sarcastic). That is also the purpose of this post. To throw the idea out there for everyone. I know where I work we have a Master Index for our Manuals, and it’s a full time job to keep up with them. I am well aware that all of you are gracious enough to do this on your own time and as a volunteer.
Foxit or acrobat have both a search which allows really quick to find everything. Without any arrogance or sarcasm from my end, do you use it?
No sarcasm taken
I do have those and before I posted this thread I did exactly that. I discovered that you have to do it for each manual until you find what your looking for. That is a good alternative
update
If you have an IPAD try opening one of the manuals in Ibooks. The search engine is a little better.
Darkman is accurate about the foreword of course.
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Many buttons on the F-16 hotas are multi function depending on what mode you are in (AA, AG, NAV). This is why it is recommended you bind your real life buttons to the in game throttle and stick buttons instead of functions alone. Otherwise you will need more buttons then the number on the in game throttle and stick to do the same amount of functions. The Dash-1 has very good descriptions on this with pictures of the F-16 button layout and the functions they preform in the various modes.
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tO BE FAIR TO NEWBIES, THE MANUALS PROVIDED WITH bms, FINE A WORK AS THEY ARE, ARE NOT THE COMPLETE INFO THAT ONE WOULD NEED.
ONE ALSO NEEDS THE ORIGINAL FALCON 4 AND PROLLY THE AF ONES TOO.
AND IM TOO LAZY TO RETYOE THIS IN SMALL LETTERS
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tO BE FAIR TO NEWBIES, THE MANUALS PROVIDED WITH bms, FINE A WORK AS THEY ARE, ARE NOT THE COMPLETE INFO THAT ONE WOULD NEED.
ONE ALSO NEEDS THE ORIGINAL FALCON 4 AND PROLLY THE AF ONES TOO.
AND IM TOO LAZY TO RETYOE THIS IN SMALL LETTERS
WELL SAID mower I CAN EVEN HEAR YOU WITH THE WINDOW OPEN
Do not forget also the F-16 MLU Documents which are excellent references"
Sometimes I think there is perhaps a little impatience to get on the stick! In real life pilots can sometimes spend more time preparing for a flight than the flight lasts for. My advice - read as much as you can cover to cover and then for specific functions use the ‘search’ feature - you will find yourself getting around the manuals in faster time and when you do ‘get on the stick’ you will recall much more. Sounds tedious but then so is trying to trawl through a manual that you have never read - takes so much longer and usually ends up out of context if you are trying to look for specific functions -
My 2 cents here, based on my experience which is low yet.
it is a very difficult SIM to learn, one can’t learn it all with out reading the manual and member’s help online and on the forums.
When I first met falcon, I was surprised with the ability to release missiles and bombs , using a radar, and all the other “functionalities” there are in this sim.
i did not speak english at all, but understood some words (most written) and I tried to learn by myself, I confess I did not like to read the manuals because they were too much. Then I practiced, and did a lot of mistakes and was killed all the time… Conclusion, Once can take off, do some maneuvers, and land without much problems, but when one think about campaign, it is extremely difficult to proceed. So, the manual are a “go” no one can learn it without the manuals.
It is true, that it is difficult to read them all because you have to understand it all to be efficient, and skilled. Then you have to practice along with the reading.
There is where an online member will help. I could not do some missions nowadays without the patient help and teach of some of my squadron’s leader and friends all around the world through internet.
Today I read the manual, because I can understand it better, and it is needed.
The most important, is the effort you will put on this sim. Do you want to learn it really, you will have to read them.
The manuals in my opinion are so important and well done as the sim itself.
Not intended to offend and nor create any party here. We are all brothers here in my opinion
Best regards Metalhead -
Not intended to offend and nor create any party here. We are all brothers here in my opinion
Best regards MetalheadI can see both sides to this. I’m sure the devs get tired of answering the same question for the 997th time, and I can see how a newcomer can find this a bit overwhelming. I recommend newcomers, or even established people, grab a manual and just skim it. I frequently will just take a manual into the Reading Room(aka bathroom) and you know what, I always find something new! I think what I’m doing, Creature, is make a “mental index”. I’m not going to remember it all, but at least I’ll remember I saw it.
Speaking of Mower( he of stuck capitals) ,his AF to BMS conversion manual is still pertinent. It gives the newcomer at least an idea what to look for -
My post is to get people INTO those manuals that so many of you worked very hard to put together for us.
If I come up with any ideas I will let you know (not being sarcastic).
Please do; likewise any omissions, or mistakes. Post 'em in the Documentation sub-forum though please.
If you have an IPAD try opening one of the manuals in Ibooks. The search engine is a little better.
I couldn’t agree more. I know some people love their hard copies or printed books but I find iBooks on my iPad is my preferred tool for reading the pdf version of an edited document.
ONE ALSO NEEDS THE ORIGINAL FALCON 4 AND PROLLY THE AF ONES TOO.
Why? If there is something in these documents which you think should be included in the next version please let us know in the Documentation sub-forum, but not in CAPITALS
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I learned Falcon via Falcon 4 Allied Force. I was fortunate enough because the manual for that sim was very easy to get into –- it started with the tutorials and you were able to do exactly as the manual said. You would see exactly what the manual said. Being able to do that, being able to do “things” in the sim, being able to drop bombs and fire missiles, that gave me a big boost in confidence from the very start. That section of the manual was easy to understand, easy to follow, and results were very clear and very quick. With that “foot in the door,” I had the confidence and a tiny spark of understanding to tackle the rest of the manual and others after it.
You “eat the elephant one bite at a time” and that manual was very good at disguising the elephant. That way, the entire thing wasn’t very daunting at all.
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Errr my humble opinion here…
Maybe in a way of articles or wiki (?) the manuals could be integrated in this forum.
In addition if search results first return manual results then forum results that way the RTFM will be obvious and guys will have it in the plate. -
Please also consider the fact that multiplicating sources tremendously increase our workload.
I’m not in favour of duplication, in the long term; it creates way more issues than the benefits it brings.There was no manual, community complained
there are manuals, community still complainsWhatever solution is brought, community will still complain
We agree to that, it’s the way this community works. that said, it is also the prerogative of these doing the hard work to organize their work as they see fit.
it’s not the users who should say how our work should be organized. you are hundredths community members each probably with different opinions.
And for one that is vocal here, there may be 25 who are silent but yet have a different opinion.So keep discussing this, some good idea might pop and we might consider it but also understand that we reserve the right to do what works best for us
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I learned Falcon via Falcon 4 Allied Force. I was fortunate enough because the manual for that sim was very easy to get into –- it started with the tutorials and you were able to do exactly as the manual said. You would see exactly what the manual said. Being able to do that, being able to do “things” in the sim, being able to drop bombs and fire missiles, that gave me a big boost in confidence from the very start. That section of the manual was easy to understand, easy to follow, and results were very clear and very quick. With that “foot in the door,” I had the confidence and a tiny spark of understanding to tackle the rest of the manual and others after it.
You “eat the elephant one bite at a time” and that manual was very good at disguising the elephant. That way, the entire thing wasn’t very daunting at all.
With respect but have you looked at and tried the tutorials included in BMS? These are well documented and structured to give you the same “foot in the door” to continue to examine and learn from the manuals.
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Maybe a bit recursive, but here goe my very modest 2 cents:
A dedicated forum in which:- Basic questions would be asked AND moved to if asked in the general forum.
- This is the place where the newcommer would be invited to ask, knowing beforehand that the question is very basic but hard for them to find among the tons of documentation as it seems to feel the first days.
- This is the place where people willing to answer would go with the assumption that the questions will be basic. Still applicable the idea to refer to the manuals, etc. But at least no one would be bothered in the general forums by questions answered over and over, not subject to ‘RTFM’ answer.
I dropped my first Paveway yesterday after quite a few days of messing around, reading, watching tutorials etc. I am not specially afraid to ask, but I felt like I didn’t want to bother anyone because I know the answer is somewhere in the manuals. Is there really anything not in the manuals? But hey, info becomes clear only overtime. The first days are a bit hard…
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Good discussion. Seems to me the real point of this topic is how to address the predictable questions of newcomers (where is the nosewheel button?) in an efficient and welcoming way. To foster community growth the last thing we should be doing is discouraging newcomers with abrupt and cold RTFM replies. Perhaps establish a BMS forum topic specifically for Noobies, like Rookie Ready Room or Rookies Start Here, where newcomers can be nurtured and their monotonous questions addressed by those with the patience to do so. This topic could replace Just Saying Hello. I certainly agree that the BMS manuals are wonderful references with 98% of the information needed to become a successful BMS sim pilot and that duplication of information sources can be counter-productive. The Rookie Ready Room could have an FAQ for those Nosewheel type questions and noobies could be gently guided towards studying the manuals and learning this daunting sim.
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serolrom is on the point.
A new comer comes with super extra enthusiasm but bottom expertise or knowledge.
No one is reading the thousand pages first to go fly and test the miracle. But he can’t perform basic stuff, sooooo let’s ask while I’m with hands on the stick, and the engine is burning fuel…
So comes the q’s on basic staff… doing a quick search on the manuals he can’t even know where and how.
So the easy way, the forum.
For me it’s ok and the normal thing to do. Many times I also do it. I get bored to loose xx minutes or hours searching where I saw that. many times I get 5+ pages of results… Yea right… So ask again. One of the reasons I created the hotlist.
so if the manual was integrated to the forum search engine and it was easy to discriminate results from manual and forum, in the passing of time newcomers will see the power of the manuals and where is what.
Also easy basic stuff will be in results of those searches, resulting to reduced meaningless posts. -
My cents worth. I was one of those recently who asked a pretty basic question about installation (not about systems or flight or weapons…it was really basic) and got a slightly snippy reply to “read the manual”. I think if I read between the lines it was suggested I was being lazy by asking and not trawling the manuals. I asked because I was just a little overwhelmed and to be honest, I had missed the relevant documentation. I was a little put off at first but I did take the guy’s point about reading the manuals. Which I ordered and have subsequently spent hours reading. So while I personally think it is always preferable to be patient with newbie questions, however basic, and answer them, I also acknowledge the effort gone into the documentation (which is amazing to be honest) and the frustration the old hands might have on this issue. I want to reinforce the point that the manuals are fantastic and it is true that the best way I think to do the ground school bit of getting into the sim is just to wade in and start reading. As the guy said to me, you will learn so much more by going through them looking for answers than simply asking. Fair point.
Apoll