Engine start and idle detent question
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That always happens for me. The axis value is not used by the game until it moves “some amount” which I would guess is ~5% (haha, what a guess). In air start without touching the throttle axis there’s no way to keep flying as it initializes to idle. As you move the axis very slowly it is seen that it will “wake up” at a certain change of input.
Experiment #1: start -26213, wake up -4135.
Experiment #2: start 43161, wake up 7999.Delta: 22,078, 35,162
Fraction: 33.7%, 53.7%.Experiment #3: start 2, wake up 22124.
Delta, Fraction: 22122, 33.8%.
Experiment #4: start 24, wake up -21934.
Delta, Fraction: 21,910, 33.4%.I may have been sloppy on #2. Taking #1, #3, #4 and the theory of round numbers it appears that the throttle will wake up when it is moved through 33.3333333% of its range. For example if you start the session at 41% axis then the axis will wake up when leaving the range 8-74%. This also means that for some starting axis positions (<33%, >66%) that you cannot wake up the throttle by moving it in one of the two directions as it’s impossible to travel 33% before you reach the min/max value limit.
This sounds “near” to consistent with moving a RL throttle out of it’s lift gate and into idle position - that first “near third” has no net effect other than to get fuel flowing…and what I was referring to when I mention I thought I’d read about this someplace; and also sounds like most of my TQS’s behave. I thought you could override this in setup/calibration somehow but I’ve not really delved into it as I’m working on a setup to do/use just this (building a full pit). Someplace I recall seeing calibration charts for doing realistic setups, but it was out on the web and not here.
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Not whats going on here though, Stevie.
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Maybe…but I sometimes see the same behavior as described. Not always, but sometimes. With three different TQSs…so I’ve just assumed they do this.
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Its DX waking up BMS inputs. Doesnt matter what portion of the range it is.
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Of course VP members are the only ones who count.
I would say it works 80% beautifully. It might be possible to set up 100% beautifully, with a modified curve on the cougar throttle, so that for the OFF-> IDLE transition where the BMS cutoff is set, the reported value to DX is constant (flat line on profile curve). Of course to be ideal, this would mean setting the cutoff value in a config file rather than clicking the (rather imprecise) slider in setup.
I think that is hence his reference to the proper hardware setup. The TM WH with Morphine’s engine code works beautifully with the cutoff code. 100% like the real aircraft. To also back up Red Dog’s statement I have never had an issue of an accidental engine shutdown due to the engine cutoff code.
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Its DX waking up BMS inputs. Doesnt matter what portion of the range it is.
I don’t use DX assignments…yet.
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Well, what do you use instead? To control the throttle axis? Im reasonably certain you use DX, and not your keyboard, to control the throttle axis.
@Stubbies, that would be a software setup. Doesnt help that the WH throttle is not exactly like the real aircraft (shape is somewhat wrong… among other things).
The only concern is that there is zero travel in the throttle while in the IDLE position. You must have the throttle above IDLE (even if only slightly so) to keep the engine on - the setup I described would mitigate the issue, but not do away with it entirely. Its saving grace is that as BMS does not model variability in fuel consumption at IDLE, having throttle slightly above IDLE results in a pph still well within the allowable range.
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I just assign my throttle via the Setup page - I’m assuming some extraordinary measure needs be taken to use DX, or does that do it?
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I just assign my throttle via the Setup page - I’m assuming some extraordinary measure needs be taken to use DX, or does that do it?
He’s saying what you’re doing is DX.
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He’s saying what you’re doing is DX.
Ok - had no idea one way or the other. I know (or think I know…) I need to do something other than what I’m doing to assign buttons, switches, etc. using DX in a keyfile…right? I haven’t gotten that deep into building things up yet. But that still goes back to my thinking “it just works this way”.
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Ok - had no idea one way or the other. I know (or think I know…) I need to do something other than what I’m doing to assign buttons, switches, etc. using DX in a keyfile…right? I haven’t gotten that deep into building things up yet. But that still goes back to my thinking “it just works this way”.
If you assign buttons in the UI (click the command in the list to highlight; click your HOTAS button to assign) that is DX also. The are other ways, outside of the UI, to get ‘more’ out of DX, such as shift state functionality, etc. For example: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?28498-Video-Guide-to-a-Basic-Keyfile-Using-Kolbe-s-Keyfile-Editor
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If you assign buttons in the UI (click the command in the list to highlight; click your HOTAS button to assign) that is DX also. The are other ways, outside of the UI, to get ‘more’ out of DX, such as shift state functionality, etc. For example: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?28498-Video-Guide-to-a-Basic-Keyfile-Using-Kolbe-s-Keyfile-Editor
Yeah…that’s the sort of thing I’m associating with DX. I’m going to need to do some shift state stuff eventually (quite a bit, I think), but I haven’t gotten to that point in my pit build so I’m a rookie on the lingo. Right now I’m working gauges and MFDs…thanks.
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This post is deleted! -
Checking Idle cutoff in the config is, if performed as the only step, a simple case of misconfiguring the software and blaming it on the software.
You also need to set the position of the detent, and by default it is positioned at the very back of the throttle movement. Which means the software considers you already to have advanced the throttle over the detent.
If you want it to work you need to also set the detent position in setup, by positioning the throttle just aft of the detent position and right clicking the set AB button. Left clicking sets the green AB line, right clicking the red IDLE line.
If I read this correctly, if you tick the idle detent in the configuration, you do get around the mess of not having to click the detent lever or Alt i. However, if you do, you will not be able to shutdown normally. Because if the idle detent is not configured for your physical throttle, then the below idle position will never be reached. Basically, the idle detent configuration is intended to be used for folks who have a physical detent on their throttle setup. Otherwise, you can easily shutdown in flight, or any regime in that matter unintentionally. Am I correct?
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Yup.
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@Stubbies, that would be a software setup. Doesnt help that the WH throttle is not exactly like the real aircraft (shape is somewhat wrong… among other things).
Well yes of course the WH throttle looks completely different but I am talking more function than cosmetics. The functionality is 100% the same as with the real aircraft you have to hold the pinky switch to allow the throttle to move into cutoff. With the WH it is not a pinky switch but lifting up on the throttle to allow it to go into cutoff. Different physical methods and looks but exactly the same effect.
The only concern is that there is zero travel in the throttle while in the IDLE position. You must have the throttle above IDLE (even if only slightly so) to keep the engine on - the setup I described would mitigate the issue, but not do away with it entirely. Its saving grace is that as BMS does not model variability in fuel consumption at IDLE, having throttle slightly above IDLE results in a pph still well within the allowable range.
At ground idle I am roughly 850 PPH. I don’t think that is above idle. I don’t have any artificial boost to the throttle so that when I am at idle that I am actually above idle. Per Morphine’s code the low end of the throttle is at 5% and that is exactly where I have the red line at.
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Well that is 150 pph higher than bms IDLE. So.
Its worth pointing out that the methods overlap, as the real aircraft requires depressing the cutoff trigger as well as a rotation outboard (lifting the inboard end) to get past IDLE, and drops back down into the OFF position.
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Its worth pointing out that the methods overlap, as the real aircraft requires depressing the cutoff trigger as well as a rotation outboard (lifting the inboard end) to get past IDLE, and drops back down into the OFF position.
I understand how the real detent works - just curious if theres any electronics/sensors on the switch, or is it purely a hardware lock of sorts to prevent the pilot entering or leaving the cut off by mistake?
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Hardware lock.
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I understand how the real detent works - just curious if theres any electronics/sensors on the switch, or is it purely a hardware lock of sorts to prevent the pilot entering or leaving the cut off by mistake?
Hardware only to prevent accidentally going into cutoff. Not needed for moving from cutoff to idle. In the F-16 the throttle quadrant is physically connected all the way back to the engine and moving the throttle in the cockpit moves a part back at the engine.