How many of us MP BMS guys (and gals?) are there anyways?
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I like a lot of what you say, it’s really good to hear about your server, I may pop in sometime to check it out. My only question is why is everyone so afraid of doing it “real?” What’s the hang up in this community? Is it that we don’t use our real names, everyone is a callsign that they’re trying to live up to a persona and not tarnish it? I think that could be a factor too. In FSX (which can get you sprayed with holy water around here :p) people actually register with their real names which makes everything much more personal and you don’t see the sort of push and pull that comes with BMS.
For example there is a group called vUSAF and they’re run by a couple retired AF dudes who simulate pretty well the admin side of the military in addition to the tactical. Now mind your they’re not doing things near what we do overall in the community, it’s more peace time ops, but they go so far as to salute senior commanders upon arrival into TS and all kinds of stuff you don’t see anywhere else. You have guys in FSX on the commercial airline side who simulate everything there is about a passenger flight, from the dispatch sheet, routing, ATC, ETOPS and the Atlantic/Pacific tracks, re-dispatch, the whole 9 yards, but nobody bats an eye. Some don’t do this, that’s a given in any flight simulation community, but by and large a huge number of folks go “full realism.”
Granted there is probably a larger percentage of users playing FSX/P3D in conjunction with VATSIM because they’re either in flight training or aspire to be, but I think we as a group could be served well by getting rid of the “just good enough” mentality and trying harder. Also people need to stop being scared of MP, it’s not that bad, even when you screw up, it’s all in your head. At our wing, we have an ethos: “steel toed shoes.” You are going to make mistakes, you are going to get torched in debrief and in flight if you’re in training. That goes with the territory, but it doesn’t ever mean that we think less of a pilot because he made a mistake, it’s just a sliver in time, something that needs correction, and debriefed the right way, the pilot wont make the mistake again because he knows within himself he is better than that. Be brave, take the plunge into MP with whoever you choose, it doesn’t matter where you go, you will get better flying with other people.
In my own case, I didn’t develop this knowledge overnight, it took a slow build to get to where I am today, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. In fact it took me 2 different VFWs to finally decide that I’d be better off creating my own, so that I could fly how I wanted to simulate BMS and hopefully inspire others to do so myself. It’s all what you put in, that’s what you’ll get out of this beast. You can definitely invest a lot more when you fly with other people and you learn at a much faster rate because someone can identify what you need to fix usually better than you can on your own. A combination of group and self study is the key to success imho and not just flying for the sake of flying, make every flight count and be with purpose, whether it’s a difficult training TE or a grueling combat flight full of stress. Each flight makes you more experienced and makes you better than the last.
I think it’s because not everyone shares the same desire to get better. Or to be any better than “good enough”. For some people Flight Sims are a way of life that they make the time and effort to incorporate into their lives. For others it’s a hobby no different than gardening or wood working. Will 99% of the home gardeners out there ever be the next curator at the national botanical gardens? No. People who rebuild a 70s Corvette in the garage open a body shop? Not likely. It’s just a hobby. Something you enjoy doing, in your own way, in your own time, at your own pace. To do it “real” requires a lot of work. And if you don’t have the true interest in the flying/sim/mil jet community, it’s exactly that: work. Some people just want to have fun, and for them that may mean 2 hours a week, or 1 sortie a month, or whatever they can squeeze in. And they want it to be fun, not work. Sometimes flying just for the sake of flying is all you want to do, because in your eyes you are good enough, which is good enough.
I think this is kind of what he was talking about though that instills a certain amount of hesitation in people. I’m not training to go out and kill or put other people’s lives in my hands because it’s a sim. I don’t always want to be torched in a debrief because you (Generic sense, not you Redshift) think I was breaking too early on an overhead, or losing visual in a mock engagement. I might just want to go up and fly with people and relax and have a good time. I think that is the point he is trying to make. And I commend him for encouraging that kind of flyer to join the mix. The VFW, strict IQT mentality everything by the book is great for the people who like the structure, and thrive on the challenge to get bet better. But it’s not for everyone. And that’s the point I was trying to make earlier. Neither way is better or worse than the other, they’re just different play styles.
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When you guys send a team over it costs very little, as most of them are already here. :drink:
Yes, that was us generously raising the average IQ of both countries
We make no effort to portray what we do as ‘realistic’ in the sense that you’re part of the USAF or something. Our rules are
1. Have fun.
2. Kill Red stuff.That’s it. It’s a MP sandbox.
Sounds perfect to me. Once I finally have a working HOTAS again, I will have to work up to get halfway proficient again and I’m definitely keen to hop on and join the fight. And I’m more than happy to fly with anyone that is starting out with Falcon 4.0 and wants to get some MP experience under their belt. I’m no expert by any means (most of my F4 experience is BMS 2.0 and earlier) and I always maintain a sense of humor about this all.
Flying with a VFW is great fun and probably some of the best Falcon 4.0 flights I’ve ever done were with my fellow Straydogs over North Korea. But going as far as pretending to be in the USAF and saluting… I don’t know. I’m just not that type of person I guess. It kinda feels wrong to me because I often work with the USAF (I’m 100% a civilian! though) and I hugely respect those that serve their country in uniform. And while I thoroughly enjoy Falcon 4.0 and I’m nuts about (military) aviation, to me Falcon 4.0 BMS , in all its glory and realism, is still a piece of software I’m running on my personal computer, from the comfort of my own home and purely for my own entertainment. So, in short, that goes back to my original point - that’s why I don’t mind flying with new people even if they are very new to this.
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Yes, that was us generously raising the average IQ of both countries
Sounds perfect to me. Once I finally have a working HOTAS again, I will have to work up to get halfway proficient again and I’m definitely keen to hop on and join the fight. And I’m more than happy to fly with anyone that is starting out with Falcon 4.0 and wants to get some MP experience under their belt. I’m no expert by any means (most of my F4 experience is BMS 2.0 and earlier) and I always maintain a sense of humor about this all.
Flying with a VFW is great fun and probably some of the best Falcon 4.0 flights I’ve ever done were with my fellow Straydogs over North Korea. But going as far as pretending to be in the USAF and saluting… I don’t know. I’m just not that type of person I guess. It kinda feels wrong to me because I often work with the USAF (I’m 100% a civilian! though) and I hugely respect those that serve their country in uniform. And while I thoroughly enjoy Falcon 4.0 and I’m nuts about (military) aviation, to me Falcon 4.0 BMS , in all its glory and realism, is still a piece of software I’m running on my personal computer, from the comfort of my own home and purely for my own entertainment. So, in short, that goes back to my original point - that’s why I don’t mind flying with new people even if they are very new to this.
As a grandson of a 2 star general and a son of a 1st Sgt, don’t put the military too high on the pedestal (they’re just people too like you and I are). It’s great to respect your country, the men and women who serve and protect her, but the vUSAF dudes doing a salute tag in the bottom of teamspeak, definitely isn’t that over the top, nor disrespectful to the military. It’s just text and a virtual way to show respect to their friends who have shown dedication to their virtual AF. We don’t do that at our wing, but what I am saying is that you can go as deep as you’d like. Obviously they take the time to do so, they have strong membership and regular participation. They’re probably doing something right, that is fun and immersive for their membership and it’s really the only virtual military organization on VATSIM. They have to do UPT before they can even get to the IQT phase for the airframe they’ve signed up for. That’s pretty full up.
The main point was the more serious you take the things you do, the more cohesive of a group you can build and they have been around for a long time, with retired USAF pilots and crew-members alike and people who have never even been close to the military. And just because you do things full up doesn’t make it exclusive, in fact quite the contrary, I want to be as inclusive as I can, I literally bend over backwards to get pilots through our training, spend extra time to aid in mastering subjects, they don’t make it through because they psyche themselves out, that’s the real reason.
I don’t know why professional and getting your just deserts in a debrief = exclusive or too much. How are you ever going to get better if you go through every flight thinking you’re perfect? The answer is you wont and you’re not. You actually have to have the brass to say this wasn’t right, I am going to improve on this, and it wont be showing up in my future flying. You never learn from doing things well, once you think you’re doing it always right or you’re the best or this is “all I need” is when you stop learning. You learn 10x more when you make a mistake and then talk about it. Anybody who’s mastered this sim will tell you the same, hands down.
On the same token, when things are done well we glorify it, hence the simulation of medals, awards, ect. They more symbolize the work put into the wing, but still based on a lot of the same criteria in real life. It’s a way to mark participation and personal growth. Just because we are rocking ribbons on our “ARMS” page and badges doesn’t mean we think we are Colonels and Majors in real life. Same with your Falcon 4 logbook. It’s a virtual thing, to help immerse yourself in the process.
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OK, at the risk of selling past the close, I came up with an analogy, which seems on my point.
So you play golf. A 16 or 20-handicap, you aren’t bad, good even, on your day. But you still can shank or duck hook with the best of 'em.
You show up at the course a single. As you arrive at the first tee, who do you see but Ernie Els and Freddie Couples. No shit. They see you and ask you if you want to play with them.
Hold on, no internet machismo.
Are you the kind of guy that says hell yeah? You think you will embarrass the shit out of yourself. These guys will be striping it down the middle while you are blocking everything right in to the woods. You so want to do it, but you think that not only will you embarrass yourself, you are also afraid you’ll just hold them up, inconvenience them, right?
I bet most everyone would instantly feel the urge to make an excuse. “Thanks err, Big Easy, but I’m waiting for someone, you guys go ahead”
Some will play anyway. It’s Freddie and Ernie afterall. Just think of what I might learn!
But other guys will decline and play along behind them. After a few holes they notice things. How much fun they are having. How they banter back and forth with each other and with you when you get close enough. After a while they just seem like regular guys, and by the 15th hole you might muster the courage to say hey, mind if I play with ya after all?
This analogy was completely unecessary, as it seems my points were well-received, but I thought it brilliant so I had to share But it’s those guys who decline that are the ones we need to reach. Just imagine if you had played all 18 with them?
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Roll a cigarette in the woods and drink all the beer on the golf cart.
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Roll a cigarette in the woods and drink all the beer on the golf cart.
I’ve done that before lol! I’m a horrible golfer and that’s the truth
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For anyone curious enough server is at:
Version: BMS 4.33 u3
Platform: 64 bit
Theater: Balkans
IP: 83.250.95.15
Bandwidth: 1024 or higher.IVC: 83.250.95.15 (optional)
Campaign: BoP
more info:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4348535/bms-4-33-u3-dedicated-server#Post4348535 -
Is there an actual benefit from using the 64bit version of bms ? Up to now I’ve not read reports either way. Just curious. The VG server is currently 32bit to maximise accessibility.
Not the topic here but if you have any info ? I seem to recall intriguing mention of 64bit being preparation for some future advancement. Likely I got the wrong end of the stick. -
DBond suggested 64bit from start and during one of our attempts to rid the blue-pause issue we tried 32-bit but had flickering textures in Balkans that went away when we tried 64bit again and from there we’ve stayed on 64.
No thorough scientific data, I know. but still -
I think the focus should be on players who want to fly MP, but do not, for whatever reason… The concept behind our server is designed to mitigate this to some extent. We have no requirement to fly with another, or to even use voice comms. As I like to say, just hop on and do the voodoo that you do. Want to fly an interdiction? Have at it. A strike? A BARCAP? Ripple durandals down a runway? Go get 'em. Players are free to join whenever they want, in any squadron or plane, to fly however they see fit, with or without another human. Or we will take them up for a few flights. It’s all good, literally.
Now take that concept one step further. Where can people go to find the type of campaign game that meets their comfort level? So you have the most liberal campaign rules, but what if someone wants to take it up just one step. The solution is to poke around for squadrons and try to find a match between you, the squadron rules, whether or not the squadron is active as you’d like, etc. and so forth.
Imagine though, you could go to a site that has a wiki, that has forums, that has chat, that has blogs, and where a lot of the squadrons go to fly when not flying exclusively by themselves? (FYI I looked into this a bit and it looks like tiki.org might be a good platform to go with here.) Anyway, uou know where to find the campaigns on this site, you know where the general SOPs are and you know where the campaign SOPs are, and moreover you will be bumping into flyers from various squadrons all the time, not just talking about BMS but actually scheduling wheels up. That’s what I am advocating for, I just think you get there by getting the squadrons to buy in on the concept.
How do you mate up with what Redshift20 is doing? Or squadrons in between what you and Redshift20 are doing? The answer is, I think, vNATO or vPACT if you will. A place where squadrons come together for joint operations. And although that is primarily what vNATO/vPACT does, it would also be (I hope) I place for newcomers.
What I am suggesting is the for the squadron leaders to get together (or assign liaisons) and establish a site and the protocols to create a smorgasbord of flying opportunities (this will be great for the guy not in a squadron and not yet flying MP). In my view, it’s the squadrons that have the gift to give here. If they realize it will be fun to play cross-squadron campaigns then they can build the platform that drags single players into the fold and enjoy it. The side benefit for all the squadrons is they will be meeting flyers all the time that may be a really great fit for the squadron, but they are doing it in a way that doesn’t burn up so much energy. New players are going to absorb all the stuff they need to know to get wheels up in MP, such as connections, IVC, having the right theater, where to get that theater, how to install that theater, etc. And the squadron will not have to lift a finger to get that done. Well more accurately, people from all the squadrons would be contributing a wee bit so that many hands make light work.
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My only question is why is everyone so afraid of doing it “real?” What’s the hang up in this community?…
I probably interpreted your post wrong, but it sounded to me that you didn’t appreciate that most simmers – if not all – LOVE what you are doing! It might not be someone’s cup of tea, but that doesn’t mean they don’t admire you guys for what you are doing. My suggestion is not about criticizing what anyone is doing internally. My suggestion deals with how to get squadrons to fly together though they have different internal standards. It has to do with building interest in the sim, MP, and the whole community. The basic unit, in my mind, should be the squadron when it comes to setting up a vNATO/vPACT or whatever you want to call it. So, although it is perfectly okay for flyers from different squadrons to be in the same flight, you would most often expect all members of a flight being from the same squadron (but sometimes with a guest flyer). In this way, your flight is going to be using your squadron protocols and you get to enjoy the benefits of your particular brand of flying. But you also get to fly in a package with other humans that don’t need to know your particular brand of flying. You get the best of both worlds. Consistency within your flight and dealing with a variety of variables. It’s just like picking the right ordnance considering threats, weather, and aircraft capabilities and vulnerabilities. Talk about IMMERSION!
And I think you should deal with the realities of the sim we have. For example, by decentralizing the host we aren’t going to die if one server dies. That seemed to really blow up Falcon Online from what I read. So say the KTO is being hosted entirely 24/7 on theOden’s server. But his machine takes a dump. So, no worries, the campaign moderator just updates the protocol until the server is back up (to a “check in” “check out” model or switch to say 8thVFW server and their rules if they step in and offer to host it) and away you go. In the end, the campaign doesn’t die because of technical issues.
Bring all of this, not under the leadership of 1 squadron, but the representatives (the Board of Directors) from all participating squadrons. Set up the infrastructure, and now you have something special. It isn’t owned by one squadron, it’s owned by all the participating squadrons.
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OK, at the risk of selling past the close, I came up with an analogy, which seems on my point.
So you play golf. A 16 or 20-handicap, you aren’t bad, good even, on your day. But you still can shank or duck hook with the best of 'em.
You show up at the course a single. As you arrive at the first tee, who do you see but Ernie Els and Freddie Couples. No shit. They see you and ask you if you want to play with them.
Hold on, no internet machismo.
Are you the kind of guy that says hell yeah? You think you will embarrass the shit out of yourself. These guys will be striping it down the middle while you are blocking everything right in to the woods. You so want to do it, but you think that not only will you embarrass yourself, you are also afraid you’ll just hold them up, inconvenience them, right?
I bet most everyone would instantly feel the urge to make an excuse. “Thanks err, Big Easy, but I’m waiting for someone, you guys go ahead”
Some will play anyway. It’s Freddie and Ernie afterall. Just think of what I might learn!
But other guys will decline and play along behind them. After a few holes they notice things. How much fun they are having. How they banter back and forth with each other and with you when you get close enough. After a while they just seem like regular guys, and by the 15th hole you might muster the courage to say hey, mind if I play with ya after all?
This analogy was completely unecessary, as it seems my points were well-received, but I thought it brilliant so I had to share But it’s those guys who decline that are the ones we need to reach. Just imagine if you had played all 18 with them?
I think this analogy works. Maybe for me more than most. As a current PGA Professional and previous full time playing professional the golf analogy works. To me most all of the points in this thread are said very well and ring true relative to my 17 years of Falcon.
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FEAR. Yup, trying not to be embarrassed, humiliated, uncomfortable, ect…? Very true. Confident golf professionals really only require one thing from anyone we play with. Be cool at what ever level you are and have fun. Yes things get frustrating. Vent for a sec, then let it go. At the end of the day, how you played that day is how you played. Maybe tomorrow will be better? Maybe practice? Not Practice? Whatever, but next time just… Be cool.
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Dedication. Yeah have to agree here too. We call it realistic expectations is our trade. I’d call myself an 8-10 HCP Falconeer. I let the “pro’s” I fly with MP know that. So for those who like me don’t have the time to be “pro” at Falcon, just mention that. I’ve only met the most helpful people in this world. (Falcon is the only gaming I do at all)
Falcon is hard! To be a pro version for sure. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be fun during the learning process. And still rewarding! And even the Falcon veteran pros still find rewarding accomplishments. I’d place my bets on that assertion.
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Attention Span. Love this one too. Fits the analogy. Call it a video game, flight simulator, combat study flight simulator, or whatever. It’s Complex! Take it one bite at a time. Just a little patience might be needed, but I’d say anyone can build “Falcon Endurance”. Happens in golf. If a beginner is overwhelmed by a bunch of stuff they are not ready for, it feels like work to them. Not fun. Yup, they’re not coming back.
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Gamers who beat a game then buy new ones My apologies, I don’t know how to do the quote from each poster to add this post. Ironically this ties not so much into golf, as something I use teaching the game of golf. When golfers get frustrated and start hating on the difficulty I bring up Tic-Tac-Toe. I heard this in a seminar and the jist of it is this. The reason we all quit tic tac, is simply because we figure it out and master it. Meaning…. we got bored. Challenging things are what people generally like. With the caveat that there needs to be achievable and measurable goals along the way. I’m going to put a guess out there and say that Falcon is pretty high up there on its challenge in the world of sims and gaming.
Thanks to OP, and to the posters, and for sure the devs that keep this amazing community alive. If I left anyone out, call me for golf lessons I have bills to pay!
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For those non-Golfers among us, what the heck is a "8-10 HCP Falconeer "?
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Come play with us, Baffler we’ll bring your handicap right where it’s supposed to be
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For those non-Golfers among us, what the heck is a "8-10 HCP Falconeer "?
I guess that refers to your handicap? Not a golfer myself, but it’d make sense (8-10 is the range of the casual but regular and seasoned hobbyist golfer I believe, again, I may be spouting BS :D)
Cheers, uwe
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Handicap is used in golf to allow two or more players of differing abilities to compete. In essence, your handicap is the average number of shots you shoot over par. It’s more complicated than that (depends on course difficulty and other factors). But in general terms that is what it is.
So with the typical course being around par 72, an 18-handicap golfer averages around 90 shots per round. Now if that 90-guy wants to play a scratch golfer (0 handicap, shoots around par), the better golfer ‘gives’ the worse golfer 18 shots to even the playing field. Simply put if the better guy shoots 72 and the worse guy shoots 90, they are level, tied, a draw.
So when you hear a guy say ‘I’m a 6’ or whatever, it gives you an indication of his ability in relation to par. That guy averages around a 78.
A "8-10 HCP Falconeer " would be someone who is good, but has not yet mastered the jet.
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Is that with or without mulligans? Because with a mulligan per hole I can get my handicap down to a 46.
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I take pride in telling people I play off 6, or 7 on a bad day.
Last time out, I only lost 6 balls, this was a good day!
I’ll get my coat…
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LOL Malc
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Nice one Malc