Crosswind Landings / "Impossible Landing" TE / Crosswind landing advice
-
You typed the FREQ. What is the functionof TACAN BAND currently…? (75X)
It’s the TACAN (DME) ! …
-
Hehe – yeah, top landing tip: don’t land and let the weight of the jet close the WoW switches with a boot full of rudder in when there’s a crosswind…unless that is you want to morph into an instant fireball!
There’s a really good Joe Bill Dryden “Semper Viper” article about that scenario kicking around somewhere about this. So of course once the AFM with ARI was done I set up a TE with a healthy xwind to repro the scenario. So far as I can tell, the effect was just as described in the article only I’m not as good a pilot as Joe Bill was so I lost control AFM models this stuff dead on the money.
AFM is a stellar piece of work but using it in the landing regime is absolutely my favorite thing about it…I do hops around the pattern for fun and to this day it brings a smile to my face every time when I think of AFM compared to the old MPRS flight model for landing (good grief what a dog that was in the pattern!).
Interesting information, thanks! I’m just wondering, because Snakehandler at f-16.net says that you can crab to the flare and then straighten out the nose with a rudder kick. Snakehandler is an F-16 pilot and according to him this technique makes for a much smoother landing. I used to land this way in OF and it worked fine. But when I try it in BMS things seem to become a lot more violent. I don’t mean to critisize, I’m just curious about the best technique. And just wondering, because here there are references to F-16 pilots who say you should stay away from the rudder during landing and other pilots who say you can use a rudder kick to straighten out the nose.
-
okay i can only talk about techical aspect here.
the ARI is desactivated as soon as wheels are moving at higher speed than 60…(so as soon you touch the ground even if wow is not triggered)
this has been done to allow pilots to put aileron on ground ans rudder independantly. if ARI was active on ground , steering in wind would have been impossible as aileron would command opposite rudder.
anyway, the use of rudder in approach can be done however increase the difficulty to control roll.
after touch rudder can be used like a classic aircraft.
if you bounce ARI is off as long as wheel has not decelrated under 60 (wheel speed model included in afm for the pupose of the ARI)
-
I talked to Snakehandler about this and he mentioned the same thing to me. As I recall he said that an IP at Luke showed him how to do this and that guy was a 737 guy for Southwest (so maybe a reservist??) and that’s what they do in the 737 to make happy pax on landing.
At any rate, the point was finding the difference between a “greaser” landing and the more typical bounce arrival you get in Vipers because of the relatively stiff gear and the fact that at typical landing speeds the Viper isn’t quite ready to stop flying at initial touchdown. With moderate wx conditions there’s no question that kicking the nose around with rudder to align with the centerline at the last possible second can smooth out landing a little (and that works with AFM too). Joe Bill’s write up was talking about testing at the upper limit of what the viper is certified for x-wind landings, 25 knots or so x-wind component. In that latter regime, I don’t think Snakehandler would recommend using rudder if we asked him
I think it’s often said by the pros that the Viper is one of the easiest jets in the inventory to fly but one of the hardest to fly really well.
-
IRL for Mirage2000 it’s the same … DO NOT use rudder … land with crab angle.
-
Thanks for clarifying guys! And Boxer, pretty cool that you know Snakehandler and talked to him about this.
Anyway, amazing job on bms! The more I fly it, the better it gets. It’s really cool!
-
Anyway, amazing job on bms! The more I fly it, the better it gets. It’s really cool!
Yes, this is a dream flightsim game that we’ve received from BMS for free (well, just add Falcon4 CD at the installation). It’s also nirvana time for all those ex-frugal characters who have survived in the hobby till these days.
Thanks,
Sabre. -
Instrument ILS approach…
… working on vidéo annotations for explanations
Fantastic work - thanks kindly
-
It’s also nirvana time for all those ex-frugal characters who have survived in the hobby till these days.
lol +1
-
If you do land with crab, drop the wing on the side where the wind comes from.
Not much, just a little to let the tire on that side touch the ground first.
This will help to make the landing a lot more gentle.Gr Falcas
-
If you do land with crab, drop the wing on the side where the wind comes from.
Not much, just a little to let the tire on that side touch the ground first.
This will help to make the landing a lot more gentle.Gr Falcas
Is this true Falcas?? I thought it was recommended not to use this after some AFM updates.
Just trying to improve the landings. I bounce a lot in crosswinds. If this works will definitely use it….
-
Is this true Falcas?? I thought it was recommended not to use this after some AFM updates.
I am not talking about using the rudder!!! only about touching the ground with one tire at the time.
As an addition, make sure that you add aileron into the wind after touching down.Gr Falcas
-
I am not talking about using the rudder!!! only about touching the ground with one tire at the time.
As an addition, make sure that you add aileron into the wind after touching down.Gr Falcas
Tried it and totally worked:)
It’s if I have a cushion and bounce much less now thanks!
Oh and about landing last few seconds after rwy insight before touch is total “seat of pants” moment for me. Look out from the left of the HUD, disregard any instruments and just fly it down. Works quite good here.
-
Yes, this is a dream flightsim game that we’ve received from BMS for free (well, just add Falcon4 CD at the installation). It’s also nirvana time for all those ex-frugal characters who have survived in the hobby till these days.
Thanks,
Sabre.I agree! BMS feels more like falcon5 than an addon for falcon4. It’s pretty much a new sim!
Falcas, thanks for these landing tips. I’m definitely going to try that.
Cheers,
Tomcatter31 -
Hello,
Watch this
Is my landing wrong? I know that i have to land in crab and I think i did not make so bad, but after touch down I cannot keep my nose straight in the middle of the runway even using rudder… Where is the mistake?
-
Was fine until touchdown. How much rudder and left brake did you use to keep centered? Just before and during touchdown make all efforts with rudder to align nose with runway, wheels will track that way. If you’re not straight get the nose wheel down and steer.
-
What is the Xwind component value?
-
Just watched the vid … Xwind is about 15Kts. So within the limits.
EDIT:
While landed, you must correct runway axis with rudder.
-
I will try again later… I did not touch toe brakes because I wanted to keep nose high to aerobrake. It seems to me that full rudder right was not enough to keep the jet on the runway while nlg was up. But I will try again and again maybe I did something wrong!
-
Remember that with a wind from the right, the jet will want to track right, because the vertical stabilizer is being pushed left. You need to use LEFT rudder, not right!