SA-10 behaviour
-
you guys like the beatles too much
https://mega.nz/#!ChFQxCCI!osl8sifxUEAlkacVtfa_LZ8JdCJLc3fT42ndxA3MQYQ
https://mega.nz/#!O0UmgSqY!59f2DO7sudZ9VG-ho_apcwu00nfowQ0dHk16rEk-zdA
Ah, HOJ, ofcourse… cant remember if I was ECM on though.
-
Ahmed, molni may have missed your answer and Adolfin’s. Happened to me a lot lately, only seeing a part of the thread and having the feeling it stops there.
Likely, I used my smartphone with I do very rarely for forums.
-
you guys like the beatles too much
https://mega.nz/#!ChFQxCCI!osl8sifxUEAlkacVtfa_LZ8JdCJLc3fT42ndxA3MQYQ
https://mega.nz/#!O0UmgSqY!59f2DO7sudZ9VG-ho_apcwu00nfowQ0dHk16rEk-zdA
Aah sorry, I should have asked if it was a known feature instead of bug
I assume this HOJ capability is modeled for the following systems: SA-6/10/11/17 ? Or more perhaps?
-
you guys like the beatles too much
https://mega.nz/#!ChFQxCCI!osl8sifxUEAlkacVtfa_LZ8JdCJLc3fT42ndxA3MQYQ
https://mega.nz/#!O0UmgSqY!59f2DO7sudZ9VG-ho_apcwu00nfowQ0dHk16rEk-zdA
Excellent!
-
Surely if the SA10 is no longer emitting then the self protection jammer will be silent. HOJ is not ‘magic missile’ especially for SARH missiles, tracking pure pusuit, drfm jamming techniques are some of the obstacles that make HOJ a very, very low Pk.
-
Surely if the SA10 is no longer emitting then the self protection jammer will be silent. HOJ is not ‘magic missile’ especially for SARH missiles, tracking pure pusuit, drfm jamming techniques are some of the obstacles that make HOJ a very, very low Pk.
Only problem S-300PT was pure RCG with 5V55K and from S-300PS SAGG method is used with 5V55R which is a combined SARH + TVM method uses both the missile and the guidance station for anti jamming methods.
-
Only problem S-300PT was pure RCG with 5V55K and from S-300PS SAGG method is used with 5V55R which is a combined SARH + TVM method uses both the missile and the guidance station for anti jamming methods.
So three things here then, no hoj because spj silent, no hoj because anti jamming and no hoj because drfm. So how can hoj be a reason here.
-
So three things here then, no hoj because spj silent, no hoj because anti jamming and no hoj because drfm. So how can hoj be a reason here.
Bms Sa10 has HOJ capabilities
That’s a fact in our DB which explains the OP behavior
That’s all
-
This post is deleted! -
Bms Sa10 has HOJ capabilities
That’s a fact in our DB which explains the OP behavior
That’s all
Yes but the SA10 was dead, no longer emitting, so TVM, SAGG, SARH or HOJ will not work because they rely on the reflections from the ground radar coming back to the missile.
The only situation that this would hit its target is if the missile was autonomous which S-300 isn’t. -
Yes but the SA10 was dead, no longer emitting, so TVM, SAGG, SARH or HOJ will not work because they rely on the reflections from the ground radar coming back to the missile.
The only situation that this would hit its target is if the missile was autonomous which S-300 isn’t.I am telling you that in our DB the missile has autonomous HOJ capabilities (like aim120) so it can track you as long you have jammer on , irrespective or the FCR
-
I am telling you that in our DB the missile has autonomous HOJ capabilities (like aim120) so it can track you as long you have jammer on , irrespective or the FCR
Is this seen by the devs as a bug and will be fixed?
-
-
What bug??
No bug here as explainedTo my understanding the S-300 needs a ground station (FCR?) feeding the missile with guiding information even for HOJ. Is this wrong?
-
To my understanding the S-300 needs a ground station (FCR?) feeding the missile with guiding information even for HOJ. Is this wrong?
No idea I trust DB managers
But what you are saying would be a non sense fro engineering POV
-
No idea I trust DB managers
After a quick readup on wikipedia I found this:
@Wikipedia:
[…] Missiles are guided by the 30N6 FLAP LID or naval 3R41 Volna (TOP DOME) radar using command guidance with terminal semi-active radar homing. Later versions use the 30N6 FLAP LID B or TOMB STONE radar to guide the missiles via command guidance/seeker-aided ground guidance (SAGG). SAGG is similar to the Patriot’s TVM guidance scheme. […]
It looks like that TVM, which the S-300 is using, needs a ground station to compute the interception data as well as a FCR for illuminating the target with radar energy. The missile itself only has a radar receiver. It looks like it doesn’t even have the ability to compute a interception by itself but relies on a data-link to the ground station.
Though I’m no expert on this. Maybe someone with more insight can chime in.
-
No idea I trust DB managers
But what you are saying would be a non sense fro engineering POV
That’s the principle of Track Via Missile guidance.
FCR tracks the target
Missile detects radar reflection on the target and sends its signal to the ground station via datalink
Ground station adjusts the guidance commands to the missile - I suppose, to be able to do better than simple proportionnal navigation guidance, and to be able to send an abort command if needed.I suppose there is a degraded mode of operation if the missile does not receive datalnk guidance –> revert back to proportionnal navigation like any SARH missile.
However, without the FCR illuminating the target, the target jammer would not emit (at least not in the FCR’s band, which the missile is optimized to receive), except a very basic noise jammer.
-
That’s the principle of Track Via Missile guidance.
FCR tracks the target
Missile detects radar reflection on the target and sends its signal to the ground station via datalink
Ground station adjusts the guidance commands to the missile - I suppose, to be able to do better than simple proportionnal navigation guidance, and to be able to send an abort command if needed.I suppose there is a degraded mode of operation if the missile does not receive datalnk guidance –> revert back to proportionnal navigation like any SARH missile.
However, without the FCR illuminating the target, the target jammer would not emit (at least not in the FCR’s band, which the missile is optimized to receive), except a very basic noise jammer.
If the system is design with HOJ capability I would have mounted it in missile head , not FCR
It is passive receiver , does not cost much energy nor space
-
If the system is design with HOJ capability I would have mounted it in missile head , not FCR
It is passive receiver , does not cost much energy nor space
That’s not what I’m saying. A jammer will only emit to disturb a signal it actually receives. So if the FCR shuts down, so will the jammer’s emissions in the FCR band (that the missile can actually receive), and HOJ is then useless.
-
That’s not what I’m saying. A jammer will only emit to disturb a signal it actually receives. So if the FCR shuts down, so will the jammer’s emissions in the FCR band (that the missile can actually receive), and HOJ is then useless.
Why the jammer should shut down ???
Depends entirely on the pilot !! And maybe the jammer will stay on because of other threats
So that’s why it is interesting to have HOJ in the missile head because if the FCR sees a jammer
It can shut down to avoid a harm and still count on the HOJ capabilities of the missile itself
Exactly like the aim120