The Future of Falcon BMS 3rd Party Developers
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For AFM information
Read nasa TP 1538
Mav
Iāve read not completely but bit of Nasa TP 1538.
Thatās not what iām searching for.
Several examples:
maxdispl prestress Stif(K) Elasti(F) Stif2(K2) Defzone1 latfrict slippct wheelfrict BRAKEfric ANGSLIP ANGBREAK TireLatelasticity TireLonglasticity
2.0 0.0 15560 1500 35000 0.2 0.020 0.75 0.003 0 130 140 0.0005 500
What means Stif(K) Elasti(F) Stif2(K2) (for example) and how it translates to game in tearms of spring behaviour in the gears
Other:
LIFT COEFFICIENT CL
1.0 # Table Multiplier
Mach : 0.000
-0.1868 -0.1245 -0.0623 0.0000 0.0623 0.1245 0.1868 0.2490 0.3113 0.3735
Iāve been asking a long time about CL / CD behaviour in BMS
If NACA CL/CD tables are not direct aplicable how to calculate such values for BMS?One more before i Bored you to dead (FM this time)
ALTITUDE BREAKPOINTS
ALPHA BREAKPOINTS
DYNAMIC PRESSURE BREAKPOINTS
RCMDMX - PEAK ROLL RATE- I donāt understand what this does in the behaviour of the plane in game.
You are one of the main creators of FM and AFM data files for BMS. Is to much to ask for simplified resume and explanation of the values and descriptions involved?
Everytime you send us to the NASA TP 1538. Do you understand that not everyone is familiarized with such complicated mathematics?
IĀ“m an aeronautical engineer and im struggling with some information around.I understand that what iām asking is a lot of work butā¦
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Let me be honest with you.
I understand your concerns. But I am spending quite often something like 5h a day (not only during my holidays where this amount can rise up to 12h a day ā¦ sometimes more) enjoying working on the sim an see the results. I donāt like writing pdf and my english is not good. Sometimes I would even not really have a real idea how to explain some things about database ā¦ It is already hard enouth internal, sharing own knowledges with the community is something over me. I do it from time to time here and there and thats it.
So if it is to spend that tile writing pdf and not working any more on the future 4.35, I will simply and naturally stop everything and will eventually quite the community. Somtime coming here and reading some comments make me sad and it is tiering when we tries to explain some things that ppl donāt want to hear ā¦
So I wonāt probably never participate to such enterprise. I simply canāt and would probably give up quite rapidly.
Some ppl from dev comes here to give you some hints, take it. And do your best as we does. You know, even internally we do not always have the answers, and it is not rare that we have to discover things by ourselves. Our strong point is of course coders, but also the fact that we are āorganisedā and we used to know who to ask about a given point. And this is not different than here. Regroup all the 3rd party devs together, and sare your own knowledges together.
I canāt tell you more. I have perso ally nothings more to offer.
Maybe some other devs could (?) ā¦ But we are not numerous. And not all of them comes on the ppl forum as we does because they prefer to focus 100% on their internal tasks.
Sorry. I hope you will understand.
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Mav
Iāve read not completely but bit of Nasa TP 1538.
Thatās not what iām searching for.
Several examples:
maxdispl prestress Stif(K) Elasti(F) Stif2(K2) Defzone1 latfrict slippct wheelfrict BRAKEfric ANGSLIP ANGBREAK TireLatelasticity TireLonglasticity
2.0 0.0 15560 1500 35000 0.2 0.020 0.75 0.003 0 130 140 0.0005 500
What means Stif(K) Elasti(F) Stif2(K2) (for example) and how it translates to game in tearms of spring behaviour in the gears
Other:
LIFT COEFFICIENT CL
1.0 # Table Multiplier
Mach : 0.000
-0.1868 -0.1245 -0.0623 0.0000 0.0623 0.1245 0.1868 0.2490 0.3113 0.3735
Iāve been asking a long time about CL / CD behaviour in BMS
If NACA CL/CD tables are not direct aplicable how to calculate such values for BMS?One more before i Bored you to dead (FM this time)
ALTITUDE BREAKPOINTS
ALPHA BREAKPOINTS
DYNAMIC PRESSURE BREAKPOINTS
RCMDMX - PEAK ROLL RATE- I donāt understand what this does in the behaviour of the plane in game.
You are one of the main creators of FM and AFM data files for BMS. Is to much to ask for simplified resume and explanation of the values and descriptions involved?
Everytime you send us to the NASA TP 1538. Do you understand that not everyone is familiarized with such complicated mathematics?
IĀ“m an aeronautical engineer and im struggling with some information around.I understand that what iām asking is a lot of work butā¦
Stiffness ans elasticity are well stiffness (spring stiffness) and amortization (fluid amortization) , this is standard gear modeling
Those values shall be changed depending on aircraft massThere are two areas defined based on compression length and stiffness are defined for each area
The second zone is defined by a percentage of the total length ādefzone1ā
All other coefficients should not be touched
How are calculated CD/CL? Sorry but canāt tell you in a few linea , this is proper engineering classes you would need
The HFFM are retroengineerd from EM charts
Took me years -
Let me be honest with you.
I understand your concerns. But I am spending quite often something like 5h a day (not only during my holidays where this amount can rise up to 12h a day ā¦ sometimes more) enjoying working on the sim an see the results. I donāt like writing pdf and my english is not good. Sometimes I would even not really have a real idea how to explain some things about database ā¦ It is already hard enouth internal, sharing own knowledges with the community is something over me. I do it from time to time here and there and thats it.
So if it is to spend that tile writing pdf and not working any more on the future 4.35, I will simply and naturally stop everything and will eventually quite the community. Somtime coming here and reading some comments make me sad and it is tiering when we tries to explain some things that ppl donāt want to hear ā¦
So I wonāt probably never participate to such enterprise. I simply canāt and would probably give up quite rapidly.
Some ppl from dev comes here to give you some hints, take it. And do your best as we does. You know, even internally we do not always have the answers, and it is not rare that we have to discover things by ourselves. Our strong point is of course coders, but also the fact that we are āorganisedā and we used to know who to ask about a given point. And this is not different than here. Regroup all the 3rd party devs together, and sare your own knowledges together.
I canāt tell you more. I have perso ally nothings more to offer.
Maybe some other devs could (?) ā¦ But we are not numerous. And not all of them comes on the ppl forum as we does because they prefer to focus 100% on their internal tasks.
Sorry. I hope you will understand.
Dee-Jay thank you for your wise words
You and me donāt always agree around here but i admit you are spot on, and i understand the enormous job and effort the Devs are putting in each release.
I believe you understant my point.
I wiil continue to stay focus and do my best to help the comunity.You make an excellent argument.
If the Devs and moderator agree i will try to create a post dedicated to try to convey all 3rd party devs ( 3D modellers, software and add ons and theaters devs) on single post kind of a 3rd party wiki page
Again we will need your help. You do have the most updated tools and i believe that some of them should be used outside the official dev team ( my 2 cents on this).
Also your knowledge should be preserved in a good way -
Stiffness ans elasticity are well stiffness (spring stiffness) and amortization (fluid amortization) , this is standard gear modeling
Those values shall be changed depending on aircraft massThere are two areas defined based on compression length and stiffness are defined for each area
The second zone is defined by a percentage of the total length ādefzone1ā
All other coefficients should not be touched
How are calculated CD/CL? Sorry but canāt tell you in a few linea , this is proper engineering classes you would need
The HFFM are retroengineerd from EM charts
Took me yearsMav iām an aeronautical engineer and i know how to calculate CL/CD charts but in the conventional way using wing foils, reynolds numbers etc etc.
But the data factors used in the dat files intrigue me you see?If i may do you mind in a near future that i contact you via PM and we cal talk about this in order to help me out?
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You make an excellent argument.
Really???
Weakest argument Iāve ever seen!!!
Cop out!!
informal
avoid doing something that one ought to do.
āhe copped out at the last momentā
synonyms: avoid, shirk, skip, dodge, sidestep, skirt round, bypass, steer clear of, evade, escape, run away from, shrink from, slide out of, back out of, pull out of, turn oneās back on; MoreNot just DJ, but the entire BMS team!!
EXAMPLE: Youāre able to direct and coordinate with 2 different entities to release 2 Add on theaters just after a BMS update is releasedā¦ā¦Yet the rest of the community is left in the DARK!!!
C9
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@Cloud:
Really???
Weakest argument Iāve ever seen!!!
Cop out!!
informal
avoid doing something that one ought to do.
āhe copped out at the last momentā
synonyms: avoid, shirk, skip, dodge, sidestep, skirt round, bypass, steer clear of, evade, escape, run away from, shrink from, slide out of, back out of, pull out of, turn oneās back on; MoreNot just DJ, but the entire BMS team!!
EXAMPLE: Youāre able to direct and coordinate with 2 different entities to release 2 Add on theaters just after a BMS update is releasedā¦ā¦Yet the rest of the community is left in the DARK!!!
C9
Cloud i was referring the argument and suggestion about Regrouping all the 3rd party devs together.
Exactly why i started this post.
I hope for more opening regarding information and tools being shared among us merly āmortalsāThe issue about the theaters was the tip off for me because this time it was completely in dark for sure.
Iām trying to bring us all closer to better agreement of the future in the sim development outside the Dev team.
I can understand both sides being of course in the side of the outsiders that struggle everydayWe need their help and i believe they need oursā¦
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Hi Could9!
Balkans is handle by Cougar and EMF by (I do not remember exactly who) ā¦ They are BMS team members.
Believe me or not, they didnāt had much more support than anybody else ā¦ You can ask Cougar about it.Theyāve just had āmore timeā because they had converted the theatre using Btest version ā¦ But they had to face the same issue than you by taking the stock DB as reference. It wasnāt much different than what you have to do right now.
Anyway ā¦ As said, there is not much I can do. If it is to spend all my time here and writing PDFā¦ I would rather enjoy more time with my wife when I am at home and do other stuff.
And I donāt see anybody from the 3rd party community writing complete docs about how do build a theatre, so I am not sure anybody can blame me. And even if I had the time and wish, I do not master the entire stuff. Only a small part of it. I would need several ppl to do the same at the same time. I wouldnāt be able to do it alone.
I am 100% sure that you have more general knowledges about campaing and theatres edition than I have.
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I have to agree with Dee-Jay. I was in the btest team, therefore I started early on, and I never bothered any BMS dev about the EMF theatre during the process.
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Hi Mystic!
@Cloud9: and what Mystic didnāt said is that he has Btest version acess but no acess on Dev forum yet. So one canāt say that it is easier for him.
Regards.
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Mav iām an aeronautical engineer and i know how to calculate CL/CD charts but in the conventional way using wing foils, reynolds numbers etc etc.
But the data factors used in the dat files intrigue me you see?If i may do you mind in a near future that i contact you via PM and we cal talk about this in order to help me out?
I didnāt say calculate I said retroengineered !!!
Define a thrust model from available sources (mainly fueflow charts vs speed with estimated dilution factor)
From flcs laws or EM charts or any other data get max Aoa vs speed
From PS and thrust get CD
From turn rate get CLFrom accel charts recheck thrust model
Check coherence CD/CL chartIterate as many as necessary to converge on all data
Do this for all altitude breakpoints
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Guys
C9 tsts.
DeeJay not saying that you should do something actually or divert personally.
Just point one from the team or btest team and baptise him.
Maybe some CV gathering first and tada by this day forth you are declared
BB2CD
BMS Bridge to Community Developers.
Wow super title.
You can add director at the end to make it fancy and shiny, I hope no one is looking here, check my 6 Iāll check yoursā¦ [emoji38]We will call him bb2 and may the force be with him.
Focus still taking it personallyā¦ Mav is on the other side of the moon. Raised the sleeves and started digging. Good bro. Watch the dirt you are spilling mud here also, we are artists with higher cultureā¦ [emoji38]
So we have the OP that says will do so.
So letās put on the table ideas and propositions or troubles and help the guy make it happen.Ī£ĻĪ¬Ī»ĪøĪ·ĪŗĪµ Ī±ĻĻ ĻĪæ MI 5 Ī¼ĪæĻ ĻĻĪ·ĻĪ¹Ī¼ĪæĻĪæĪ¹ĻĪ½ĻĪ±Ļ Tapatalk
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Guys from the community - No need to complain, really.
BMS data team are working very hard and day to day to get things going. There are no magics, they learn day to day and work hard day to day.
Coders exist in the team yes, and we try to help DB team, but not always all the info is transparent and ready at real time, sometimes RL get in the way and data Dev may find himself exploring things alone until coder can give support. And even among coding team, some of us are really detached at times from the main development stream and work on future stuff that is pretty much off to the side, so not all coders can help with anything.I understand the frustration of ābeing in the darkā from some community Dev POV, and we try to think internally of ways to improve things, the XML DB and modern tools by Falcas should help maintaining things in a more sane way. But sure, there will always be this balance game between development branch and current released version, there will always be gap, even internally in the team we sometimes see tension is created due to such differences between different development branches.
Also, look practically, ITO isnāt ready for 4.34, and I have no news when itāll be. Even though we technically have ITO guys in the team, but due to different reasons, it didnāt came yet to align it.
Cheers!
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The only thing Iām certain is that, as long as the Dev team keep their devotion to the Sim, it will probably last for another 20 years.
Itās a painful job, and 3rd party devs should know it also.
But as long as we continue to believe that itās worth the effort, things will eventually come up and get done, sooner or later.
There are a lot of people in this community always willing to help, including the devs, so itās just a matter of reaching out for help when needed, and help will come, sooner or later.
What Iām just trying to state here is that, as long as we all get along and help each other out in any way possible, weāll be fine.
From my part, I can only say that Iāve contacted many ppl and everyone helped as best as they could (Mystic, Cougar 56th, Cloud9 and many others), and so do the guys from the dev team, posting information that helps us overcome the obstacles that we face. And we will keep facing them, and will keep overcoming them. As long as wee continue to be part of a healthy and collaborative community.
Keep the faith
Cheers
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Let me be honest with you.
I understand your concerns. But I am spending quite often something like 5h a day (not only during my holidays where this amount can rise up to 12h a day ā¦ sometimes more) enjoying working on the sim an see the results. I donāt like writing pdf and my english is not good. Sometimes I would even not really have a real idea how to explain some things about database ā¦ It is already hard enouth internal, sharing own knowledges with the community is something over me. I do it from time to time here and there and thats it.
So if it is to spend that tile writing pdf and not working any more on the future 4.35, I will simply and naturally stop everything and will eventually quite the community. Somtime coming here and reading some comments make me sad and it is tiering when we tries to explain some things that ppl donāt want to hear ā¦
So I wonāt probably never participate to such enterprise. I simply canāt and would probably give up quite rapidly.
Some ppl from dev comes here to give you some hints, take it. And do your best as we does. You know, even internally we do not always have the answers, and it is not rare that we have to discover things by ourselves. Our strong point is of course coders, but also the fact that we are āorganisedā and we used to know who to ask about a given point. And this is not different than here. Regroup all the 3rd party devs together, and sare your own knowledges together.
I canāt tell you more. I have perso ally nothings more to offer.
Maybe some other devs could (?) ā¦ But we are not numerous. And not all of them comes on the ppl forum as we does because they prefer to focus 100% on their internal tasks.
Sorry. I hope you will understand.
Many times I felt this. Sometimes is hard to explain in short things in Falcon.
When I worked on my MOD the best way was ask very specific things. To write such a document what details everything is simply so time consuming. I just made a very short summarizing document about WPACT unit structure and how can be implemented with some examples and eventually it became 41 page long. Only about one topic and explaining the cause and reasons to maybe one day will be used. And I made tons other tricks in DB in my MODs. I explained everything what I could and what I used. The result is the 4.34 what is almost sometime if I made it what I never was able to fully do it because Iām not a coder.
Of course this is not makes happy the 3rd party devs but ever since F4.0 descendant exist only limited help were available for 3rd party creators regardless of RP5 Manual and similar stuff.
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BTW speaking of such Development guidance documentationā¦ I already feel too old (Iām 40 and my small kids already think Iām too ancientā¦), but isnāt this somehow the YT generation? Everything is on video? streaming or whatever? I mean instead of a document, wouldnāt it be easy if a Dev/3rd-Dev could just record his actions with some nice explanations?
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Reading this whole thread, an idea come to my mind:
New forum section: āOpenToPublic 3rdParty DevTeamā
It should be coordinated/moderated by one elected member.
In this forum section there should be SubForums, like:- Coordination Forum
- Coders Forum
- FM/AFM Forum
- Modelers Forum
- DB Forum
- File/Folder/Package Forum
- New Theater Develop Forum
- New Aricraft Develop Forum
Maybe more, maybe different, etcā¦
Each sub-forum coordinated/moderated by one elected member.
This way, there should be a place for asking/ requesting specific help.
It could better manage all available help/sources/documentation/software/etcā¦My 2cts.
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Good point flyway, though for ālanguageā issues the forum admins and moderators must jump in and straighten guys out.
Better have it in this forum than an external tool. Will be easier for BMS devs to follow-up.
Ī£ĻĪ¬Ī»ĪøĪ·ĪŗĪµ Ī±ĻĻ ĻĪæ MI 5 Ī¼ĪæĻ ĻĻĪ·ĻĪ¹Ī¼ĪæĻĪæĪ¹ĻĪ½ĻĪ±Ļ Tapatalk
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Sure Arty,
I mean in here, in BMS forum, and supported by the BMS dev team, ofcourse.
Maybe a restructured Technical Forumā¦