Inverted flat spin
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Hello, everybody,
I’m reviewing our emergency training.
I noticed that in 4.34 the aerodynamic behaviour has changed with an inverted flat spin.
The rotation speed increases extremely and a recover with the rudder does not seem possible.
Does anyone know anything about this?
greetings
Bumerang -
Hello, everybody,
I’m reviewing our emergency training.
I noticed that in 4.34 the aerodynamic behaviour has changed with an inverted flat spin.
The rotation speed increases extremely and a recover with the rudder does not seem possible.
Does anyone know anything about this?
greetings
BumerangIt has not changed
Are you flying a digital or a analog flcs block ?
The rudder is not the most efficient when in those situations, you need to combine with roll input as well
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Hi Mav-jp
Wow, thanks for the quick answer! I tried it with the F-16 Block CM52.
“It has not changed”?
We’ve definitely never seen such a fast spin before.
My whole life has passed me by at this moment.
and my wingman reported that he could see his own jet exhaust.Tonight, I’m gonna give it a try with extra roll input.
Thank you.
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I did experience such a situation last week and was not able to get out. I have a vid, will post tonight.
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I STAND CORRECTED
There has been a modification of the AFM (all F16 variants).
The 4.33 AFM had data down to -20 deg AOA. and therefore all AOA below -20 were equal to -20
in 4.34 , in order to fix wrong negative AOA departure, the data have been extrapolated to -90 deg AOA , with nearly no more lift but huge drag.
This is what provokes a change in behavior
You can’t stop the yaw anything at those very negative AOA if yaw built up , i made a mistake by lazyness …
i will need real pilot input to know if i have to fix it or not (not sure real pilot even know about those cases)
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I mentioned this to you and you told me it was the same as 4.33! Shock and horror!
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I mentioned this to you and you told me it was the same as 4.33! Shock and horror!
I can’t remember everything that i have done those last 10 years
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Hi Mav-jp
Thanks for the answer.
For the moment I will recommend our pilots not to practice the manoeuvre during training.
greetings
Bumerang -
Hi Mav-jp
Thanks for the answer.
For the moment I will recommend our pilots not to practice the manoeuvre during training.
greetings
BumerangCould you please send me the manoeuver description so that I can test t
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Here’s a video of my emergency class how it worked before.
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Interesting. I never experienced a deep stal before in BMS; although I never seriously tried it. When 4.34 was just out, I was fooling around a bit with the tanker training ( I think the heavy loaded jet); mainly to test key bindings etc. Inadvertently I ended up in a deep stall, from which I only recovered very late (and by accident more than by intent; holding the MPO switch and just trying out every stick or pedal input I could think of).
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okay i see that you can’t have a better AFT GC
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Interesting. I never experienced a deep stal before in BMS; although I never seriously tried it. When 4.34 was just out, I was fooling around a bit with the tanker training ( I think the heavy loaded jet); mainly to test key bindings etc. Inadvertently I ended up in a deep stall, from which I only recovered very late (and by accident more than by intent; holding the MPO switch and just trying out every stick or pedal input I could think of).
take a two seater with a central fuel tank lik ein the video, that is the worst case scenario
and assault AOA limiter and roll rate limite rin the same time
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I can enter and exit deep stall pretty much at will, but I’ve never been able to recover from an inverted spin…
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i will need real pilot input to know if i have to fix it or not (not sure real pilot even know about those cases)
Only piece of detail I can add is that I’ve tried this twice in the past in 2 different simulators (I and B50) and was able to recover.
I can try again with vid showing before actions and control inputs overlay.
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Only piece of detail I can add is that I’ve tried this twice in the past in 2 different simulators (I and B50) and was able to recover.
I can try again with vid showing before actions and control inputs overlay.
as i said, i know exactly where the problem is , it’s a 1 minute fix, i was lazy in some data
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Is it cheating if I lower my gear? :eyebrows:
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One would think you could get the jet to flip upright if you went to idle and held in some aileron…but I’ve never got that to work either…
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One would think you could get the jet to flip upright if you went to idle and held in some aileron…but I’ve never got that to work either…
That is because rudder and ailerons are totally no effect at this negative Aoa , as I said I was lazy and I plug a zero line somewhere instead of data
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Here’s a video of my emergency class how it worked before.
Off topic but that’s a very well made video