4.34 U1 - Hyd B failure causes total loss of MLG brakes
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Bear in mind that the docs haven’t been updated for 4.34.1 as it’s mostly bugfixes.
What you stated from the docs are relevant for 4.34 (and were specifically tested) and may not be anymore for 4.34.1 as this specific area was obvioulsy changed as per the changelog
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@Red:
What you stated from the docs are relevant for 4.34 (and were specifically tested) and may not be anymore for 4.34.1 as this specific area was obvioulsy changed as per the changelog
The changelog doesn’t look like it would affect my issue, I guess I’ll just test this in U0 since I can’t recall encountering it previously.
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@Red:
Bear in mind that the docs haven’t been updated for 4.34.1 as it’s mostly bugfixes.
What you stated from the docs are relevant for 4.34 (and were specifically tested) and may not be anymore for 4.34.1 as this specific area was obvioulsy changed as per the changelog
To accompany Rusher’s post:
I just tried the flame-out landing in a simple TE in 4.34U1. I started from “runway” with an C-50 in standard KTO. I climbed to 30000 ft and shut the engine down, starting the EPU-powered glide. Monitoring the EPU fuel and the HYD B pressure gauges, I noticed that the HYD B slowly depleted on its own despite not touching the rudder pedals nor the toe brakes during the glide. Parking brake was off throughout the flight. Eventually, HYD B pressure depleted to 0 before I landed. As a result, I couldn’t stop the jet on the landing roll. On another test with the same setup, HYD B pressure decayed at a similar rate despite not giving any flight control inputs.
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To accompany Rusher’s post:
I just tried the flame-out landing in a simple TE in 4.34U1. I started from “runway” with an C-50 in standard KTO. I climbed to 30000 ft and shut the engine down, starting the EPU-powered glide. Monitoring the EPU fuel and the HYD B pressure gauges, I noticed that the HYD B slowly depleted on its own despite not touching the rudder pedals nor the toe brakes during the glide. Parking brake was off throughout the flight. Eventually, HYD B pressure depleted to 0 before I landed. As a result, I couldn’t stop the jet on the landing roll. On another test with the same setup, HYD B pressure decayed at a similar rate despite not giving any flight control inputs.
I will test this night this issue. I just confirmed that this behaviour is not supposed to happen.
Brake operations during an engine fail or engine shutdown must be normal and operational (if no other Hyd problems are present).
IRL emer procedures advise on using arrestor cables if present in the emerg AB due to depletion of Hyd fluid.
We really need the arrestor cable to start working on BMS. If they work on carriers then it cannot be that difficult to place them in air bases.
This video shows this very well.
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Ok, I just tested it in U0, brake operation is completely normal. As opposed to U1 where now it’s impossible to brake without Hyd B pressure.
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Great video!
A bit off topic: i notice the Gear bracket is not shown in the HUD?
Happy newyear!
Snowman
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Why do you say that JFS should power the brake accumulators ?
If you have a leak of hydraulic fluid , that means you don’t have fluid anymore so you can’t have pressure in the system
Not the JFS, the JFS accumulators and the JFS accumulators are the brake accumulators. The accumulators are really close to the brakes (check valve back to the system) so you can lose fluid in a lot of the rest of the system but as long as the pipe connecting the bottle to the brake is intact you still have brakes. Both bottles are attached to both brakes so even if one accumulator circuit is down there is reduced force available. The B system gauge is outside the brake circuits so zero pressure displayed or even total loss of fluid in that portion of HYD B doesn’t negate emergency braking. It’s possible to lose fluid and/or pressure in the braking sections but that’s more specific than just loss of fluid or pressure in HYD B.
No, the parking brake cannot be used if there is no pressure. It can be used if the toe pedals (and just the pedals) don’t work but it needs pressure from somewhere. Parking brake is powered by the same accumulator energy but bypasses the metering valves associated with the pedals.
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Why do you say that JFS should power the brake accumulators ?
If you have a leak of hydraulic fluid , that means you don’t have fluid anymore so you can’t have pressure in the system
You have had too much wine buddy. You have already fixed the HYD system as per the -1
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@Red:
Isn’t that the principle of operation of the accumulator, they accumulate fluid, isolated from the leaking circuit and allow to use it for specific functions once in an emergency
that’s why brake, flcs and parachute have their own accumulators. Check the service diagrams in the real dash-1F-16 Brakes can be employed once after a SYS B failure, exactly thanks to the accumulator
and finally:
To the OP: As said below: parking brake could also be used in an emergency after the brake accumulator have been depleted
If you want to release the 4.35 now, you are welcome , but better hurry to update the manuals
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You have had too much wine buddy. You have already fixed the HYD system as per the -1
I know what I did mate
But I also know what is in 4.34 and what is not
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So in short
We know how all Of this works
It’s been already coded properly but not’for 4.34
In 4.34 no hydraulic system means you have an hydraulic leakage at a position where the accumulator can not work
You will have to Live with it for 3 to 4 weeks
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I know what I did mate
But I also know what is in 4.34 and what is not
Sure you do and kudos for the extras.
I think it would have been better to say " Hey… 4.34, has no JFS/brake accumulators coded, so any loss of hydraulic fluid in the B system will certainly make braking inoperative." -
Sure you do and kudos for the extras.
I think it would have been better to say " Hey… 4.34, has no JFS/brake accumulators coded, so any loss of hydraulic fluid in the B system will certainly make braking inoperative."Îm’ sure if we have a leak after the accumulator we won’t have brakes
Should I code this as well now ? LOL
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A bit off topic: i notice the Gear bracket is not shown in the HUD?
Good catch! I’ve never paid attention to this!
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So in short
We know how all Of this works
It’s been already coded properly but not’for 4.34
In 4.34 no hydraulic system means you have an hydraulic leakage at a position where the accumulator can not work
You will have to Live with it for 3 to 4 weeks
So we have no way of safely landing a jet after taking battle damage now. Why is this new though? It wasn’t like this in U0.
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Îm’ sure if we have a leak after the accumulator we won’t have brakes
Should I code this as well now ? LOL
Eventually. Depends on the surface area of the leak. How much flow rate there is of fluid, how much pressure there is supplied by system pumps and the accumulators, how much fluid there is to spare…
It’s not an instant case of a total loss of all pressure the second there’s a leak.
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Good catch! I’ve never paid attention to this!
Most probable reason is that the AOA input to the CADC failed . The CADC invalidates the AOA data and the following functions in the MMC are lost:
Flight path marker.
Winds computation.
HUD AOA bracket during landing. -
So we have no way of safely landing a jet after taking battle damage now. Why is this new though? It wasn’t like this in U0.
Feel free to revert to 4.34 U0
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It’s been already coded properly but not’for 4.34
In 4.34 no hydraulic system means you have an hydraulic leakage at a position where the accumulator can not workWarning: Personal opinion ahead, you have the right to disagree
I agree it was probably not correctly coded in 4.34 but at least we had brakes on landing with a broken jet
The 4.34.1. code broke this and now until 4.35 is released we all have to suffer with no way of stopping the jet on landing when you have a broken jet.
and god knows when 4.35 will be releasedWe had bad code but realistic behaviour with 4.34 and we now have good code but unrealistic behaviour in 4.34.1
For you coders it’s a major step in the right direction for updating the rest of the feature, I perfectly understand that
But for the users in here, It’s one step forward, one step backward in this case
And my opinion is that these changes should not have been deployed in 4.34.1 and kept internal for the obvious reason stated above.Again, feel free to disagree, the above is my opinion, yours certainly differs and you do as you see fit anyway