TFR question…
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I think usaf don t use tfr anymore
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this came up in discussion as we continue to develop our training program at sww
Would the viper in present day war/battlefield, conduct missions using TFR?
thx
Specify, RL or BMS?
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as far as i know terrain following radar is used on low level night misions to avoid radar detection and ofcourse avoid grround, i know the NV Gear help with this but one of the featurs of TFR is that it constanly ajust the elevation in clase the pilot is doing another thask.
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this came up in discussion as we continue to develop our training program at sww
Would the viper in present day war/battlefield, conduct missions using TFR?
thx
I should think not, or not unless very high superiority on the ground has been secured. Maybe.
General doctrine is not to fly low level these days, for starters…and using any sort of radar - even your RADALT - makes you a SAM target. General ROT is to think of a radar like a flashlight/beacon - if you’re looking, they can see you looking.
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as far as i know terrain following radar is used on low level night misions to avoid radar detection and ofcourse avoid grround, i know the NV Gear help with this but one of the featurs of TFR is that it constanly ajust the elevation in clase the pilot is doing another thask.
sure in game - but as Stevie said IRL
Thx Stevie!
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As much fun as TFR is I think those days left with the cold war. Any videos or books you find in the last 30 years of conflict would indicate everything is up high?
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this came up in discussion as we continue to develop our training program at sww
Would the viper in present day war/battlefield, conduct missions using TFR?
thx
It has been asked and discussed at least 3 times in the past…
Bottom line, Greece, Turkey, and Israel are using TFR normally (although I do believe that the Israeli Air Force Commander will select their F-35 now rather a Sufa with the TFR, but TFR training is there and operational option at any time). USAF removed it from their Viper fleet because the better equipped F-15E took that role with exactly the same pod/hardware, together with the stand-off Tomahawk missiles -option that are less risky in successfully completing the “mission”.
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It has been asked and discussed at least 3 times in the past…
Bottom line, Greece, Turkey, and Israel are using TFR normally (although I do believe that the Israeli Air Force Commander will select their F-35 now rather a Sufa with the TFR, but TFR training is there and operational option at any time). USAF removed it from their Viper fleet because the better equipped F-15E took that role with exactly the same pod/hardware, together with the stand-off Tomahawk missiles -option that are less risky in successfully completing the “mission”.
Shite, my bad. I should’ve used the Search Bar first; I should know this by now. :oops:
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Shite, my bad. I should’ve used the Search Bar first; I should know this by now. :oops:
NP m8! My pleasure talking about words related to lantirn gizmos!
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NP m8! My pleasure talking about words related to lantirn gizmos!
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General doctrine is not to fly low level these days, for starters…and using any sort of radar - even your RADALT - makes you a SAM target. General ROT is to think of a radar like a flashlight/beacon - if you’re looking, they can see you looking.
Not entirely true;
Thing is, I’ve had 2 REAL Sufa’s down in 50’ all the way to their Patriot sam target, and they only managed to understand what is going on during the popup maneuver.
Of course it is all depended based on each platform unique capabilities (down to Country-“Customer” specific systems), but I would say the base code would be something close to:
if you have a good JAMMER,
and
if you have a good datalink to receive target info on the fly THROUGH that (yours) jamming
then
you don’t care much… -
Not entirely true;
Thing is, I’ve had 2 REAL Sufa’s down in 50’ all the way to their Patriot sam target, and they only managed to understand what is going on during the popup maneuver.
Of course it is all depended based on each platform unique capabilities (down to Country-“Customer” specific systems), but I would say the base code would be something close to:
if you have a good JAMMER,
and
if you have a good datalink to receive target info on the fly THROUGH that (yours) jamming
then
you don’t care much……general US doctrine is to not fly low…and yeah, we care a LOT. Other operators may vary.
Lost a couple a German Tornado crew in my area for flying too low some years back…they hit a building, killed both of the crew. And they weren’t even being shot at…I’ve not been a fan of low flying ever since, personally.
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Hi Stevie - as a matter of interest, can you specify when and where this incident happend. Could not find any info about it. Just curious ….
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Hi Stevie - as a matter of interest, can you specify when and where this incident happend. Could not find any info about it. Just curious ….
I’m not surprised by that…it was a German Tornado operating on a US Range as a guest Customer. Such incidents don’t tend to get “advertised”. It was sometime back in the late 90s, as I recall…but I couldn’t say exactly when.
Ok…it’s sort of buried on a page of incidents on the China Lake Ranges, and it happened on 19 Oct 1998:
“Luftwaffe Captain Bernd Kugler (pilot) and Luftwaffe Captain Andreas Macha (weapons systems operator) lost their lives when their Tornado IDS 43+36 plunged into a ground installation at Sea Site Three on Echo Range. Although the Tornado was assigned to the German Air Force Tactical Training Center at Holloman AFB, the crew came from the Jagdbombergeschwader at Memmingen, Germany. Six persons on the ground were injured or suffered smoke inhalation. The Tornado was on a routine training mission at the time of the crash.”
I happen to have known some of the people that were in the building at the time of the incident. This account omits some detail, and I’m not willing to elaborate further out of consideration and respect for the crew, their families, and their Country.
You can see the whole list here:
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Does the Tornado has an onboard TFR system?
For some reason I think that it does…I’m only slightly familiar with the Gr Mk3 - some of my ops used to share a hangar with one, and I once got a cockpit fam in it. I can’t really recall…but I think it does.
Even so - Tornado and Jaguar drivers (to spotlight two types) seem to have a reputation for flying low passes to the point of extremes. Sooner or later that catches up with you.
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Sounds like the BUFF clown back in the 80s and 90s.
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Well i have to agree its too risky, specialy if you dont know where is the enemy, unfortunaly it is the rule no the exeption but it could be done, in operation opera isael took a sideway path to breach through the sams and radars in a low protected area near jordain border