4.35 external sound
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I am not really buying it that you wouldn’t hear THAT in the cockpit.
Have you ever flown in a fighter jet?
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Do you think maybe it would be possible to perhaps increase the range that external sounds are heard in a future update?
Not without a complete rewrite of the sound code and result wont not be different because. Previously IIRC, the sound could be heard up to 30Nm! … which is completely wrong, depending wind strength and direction and environment, (not implements) it shouldn’t be much beyond 4 - 8Nm (canopy open, only few hundreds yards canopy closed engine running) … This has been fixed (as much as possible, but still far from perfect).
Have you set your External Engine sound slide to the max?
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DeeJay…
But … meh… was just hit by an SA-2 (nevermind shame:) ) … aaaand nothing… zilch … zero … no sound at all , then burning wreck after …
What is my point … there should be BIIIIG explosion with cacophony of tearing and shredding … … okay maybe too theatrical … but no sound at all ???
E : External sound, when heard from in the cockpit, extra attenuation is applied.
Maybe that “E” flag has little too much “attenuation” … I will try to get hit more … errr to test various sound slider positions … from max to acceptable . will report experiences …
In my 7.1 sound system … big boom is equal BIG BOOM … so, … we’ll see. -
What is my point … there should be BIIIIG explosion with cacophony of tearing and shredding … … okay maybe too theatrical … but no sound at all ???
Normal.
Hearing an SA-2 “exploding” (whatever the missile type) inside a jet fighter at about tens meters distance) by a pilot with wearing a sound attention helmet (sometimes ANR and/or with earplugs) is audible only on Hollywood movies. It is barley if not audible in the real life (at that distance there are no resonance like when watching a firework for instance).
Making them audible inside cockpit by default setup can’t not be done in a realistic way without hearing them until 5 - 10Nm distance … (results can be way different different depending on peoples, headset or speakers).
Not only explosion, but he would not hear the impact either (except a direct canopy impact).
Play with your sound slider and move your External Sound in Cockpit slider to the right to reduce the canopy attenuation.
If you wish …tweak your sound table and make your sim like in StarWars. Don’t ask me to scrub several weeks/month of work to understand and balance that stuff in a realistic way dealing with an archaic code code not able to handle internal view and external view correctly at the same time.Falcon4 sound code would needs a total rewrite.
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The discussion is not about sound code DJ
It is about people wanting to hear sounds even if not realistic .
Hearing a jet at more than 8Nm is not realistic we all know that but some people want 30NmEven the best sound engine will not solve this , it is a personal preference
BMS is trying to match as far as we can real world , hence by default the sounds are done as realistic as we can
There are always the sliders to make it better to users taste but if that it not sufficient everyone is free to adjust his sound table
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Btw if someone has the courage and skills
Maybe one could develop an external app in order to control and edit the whole sound table in a very friendly way with why not pre settings profiles even overriding UI sliders using the new VAR we talked the other day
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It is about people wanting to hear sounds even if not realistic .
Some things add to the immersion, such as exaggerated external sounds. For me the only real issue is with not hearing an explosion that damages or destroys your jet, which would have to be close and would have ridiculous decibel levels. I suppose a physicist should calculate whether a jet canopy + ear cover is enough to completely eliminate the sound. Not to mention that sitting inside a jet, you would get violently jolted, which is not happening in a sim so it just feels odd when there is no feedback other than the jet suddenly becoming inoperational and possibly on fire.
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The discussion is not about sound code DJ
It is about people wanting to hear sounds even if not realistic.
… There are always the sliders to make it better to users taste but if that it not sufficient everyone is free to adjust his sound tableThey can. But most don’t know how to use the sliders. Or don’t take to time to study it. But even after hundred of hours playing with the sound table, I still can’t figure out who to play a sound loud at close distance and not having it vanishing suddenly at XXNm (especialy true for engines and bomb … and without hearing them unrealistically in cockpit beyond a far distance of few Nm) … to allow this, I need to tune them with a default slider at 100% (loud close, + proper attenuation) … it means that ppl can only reduce it after … never play it louder. As far as I understand, ppl don’t what to be unable to boost. this is an issue. We are stuck …
So I do not base my default on a 100% slider (depending on type), this is giving me after troubles on other sounds set on the same slider.Even the best sound engine will not solve this , it is a personal preference
The fact that we can’t tune them to get something not played beyond a correct distance but still with a fair level when we are close is something we can’t do.
Because there is no attenuation and delay with distance. when you are flying at 480Kts, the sound of a bomb (or AAA or whatever) exploding behind you will not catch you immediately and with a attenuation proportional to your relative speed.
this is something not implemented and because of that I can’t tune them correctly to have a correct rendering. Either they are too loud, or too weak.BMS is trying to match as far as we can real world , hence by default the sounds are done as realistic as we can
That is my guideline when setting the default values. Personal preference becomes difficult.
there are other game with not so much possibilities of customization, and nobody complains. I wonder why in BMS we always have the discussion!? … maybe the habits taken for decades of having something always overdone. -
Some things add to the immersion, such as exaggerated external sounds…
Again … that is in movie. Your “immersion” is because it is your only reference of what you think in the reality.
It will increase your immersion, ruin the one for ppl who knows how it is n real. So … Which one we choose? … I said, I can’t set that shit to make it work in both case in an easy way. Your option are the slider. Please try to use them.And not that we have already sacrificed some of the reality in the name of “immersion”. Landing gear up/down, air-brake wind, afterburners …
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Again … that is in movie. Your “immersion” is because it is your only reference of what you think in the reality.
It will increase your immersion, ruin the one for ppl who knows how it is n real. So … Which one we choose? … I said, I can’t set that shit to make it work in both case in an easy way. Your option are the slider. Please try to use them. Or I set everything to 100µ% and basta. I move on another sim.Settle down, no one is attacking you or forcing you to do anything. These are just suggestions.
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Settle down, no one is attacking you or forcing you to do anything. These are just suggestions.
I don’t need to settle down because I am not angry.
Just a “to do list” long like my arms … only 4H to 5H to sleep every nights because I am always posting the same things, always going in game to try again the same to get always the same results that I share with you for some years. And playing with that sound table to make one thing better and to break another one …Now I am gonna loose again 20min to make a video to show you what you can do with your sliders …
Stay tuned.
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As we discussed with Jp yesterday, the cockpit-wind is a kind of issue because it it ties to the Sound effect. so if you boost you Sound effect is will become too loud.
so you can choose to move it on another slider (soundtable) … maybe the Cockpit slider … or Engine Internal slider (?) … something rather low. Or you can even suppress it by deleting :Common\airflow.ogg and/or airflowcanopy.oggBut if set on another slider, some ppl will complain that it will be too low for teir preferences because it is an airspeed feedback (which does exist since airflow sound and ECS are the thing mostly heard on a jet … more than the engine itself)
Jp may have a solution for that (playing those “constant” sound at a fixed/default value, not effected by sliders, so ppl will be able to lower/boot all other sound around them … but some ppl will complain anyway after for other reasons I am sure of that. Like, for instance, not hearing anymore the altimeter vibrator when engine is not running, or hearing iot loo loud … of the ECS … or … whatever that will be set out of sound sliders.So if you set the “External Sound in Cockpit” (I will rename it “Canopy Sound Attenuation” in IU, it could be maybe more intuitive) slider to the right you will hear everything that is set as “external” sound louder because of “no/less canopy attenuation” (that this is including the relative wind/airflow I’ve mentioned above) … but it will also include your own External engine sound. So you may have to reduce it also a bit … that also means that you will reduce all other a/c external engine sound at the same time … so … more AAA, missile … etc … louder … but other a/c engine too loud or not loud enough …
And I have no way to make it easier/better for you to tune them to your own preference. We can’t (under UI) have a SETUP page for all and each single sound sample right? … so we had to make some difficult choices … that is why messing with you own sound table it the only option I can “advise” you. (easy to proc everything and have huge inconsistencies, but after all, if it is what you want => your option).Airrakes feedback could become also way too loud to your taste … same story. Or too weak … Rolling sound … same story. Landing gear mechanic sound and / or air rush sound … same … story … etc …
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So please standby … I will show you what it give with the , “External Sound in Cockpit” slider to the right, with “External Engine” slider a bit more to the left, and after suppressing the airflow.ogg + airflowcanopy.ogg from my install (this is safe, no prod).
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Just a quick remark (love the new sounds, btw): I dialed my sounds slider up quite a bit to better hear air-brakes and it also gave me a nice boost to the sound of gear being lowered or raised. Realistic or not, it gives some of the same sound that you get if you fly commercial and sit close to the landing gear bay, the clonking and mechanical sounds are quite similar. So to me the landing gear sounds are spot on. I am aware that I do not wear a helmet on a commercial flight but then again, I usually wear a headset with music or some other sounds.
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it gives some of the same sound that you get if you fly commercial and sit close to the landing gear bay, the clonking and mechanical sounds are quite similar. So to me the landing gear sounds are spot on.
Yes … as you said: on a commercial airliner.
On AlphaJet, Jaguar, Mirage F1 and M2000 one can hear nothing at all.
And On F-16 … let me guess …
Here is externally :
… engine not running!
Then in cockpit in flight … (and here is brute camera recordings … not with an helmet and earplugs!)
Retraction:
(note the wind rush sound increasing with airspeed)
(note the near bird-strike at 1:31!)
Extension :
(what you hear is the handle, and maybe a very little of the nose lock down)
(maybe a VERY little bit of the mechanics and mostly wind rush)
(here we can hear the door unblock and gears down lock => I “used” that one for the in-game effect as reference)And nope, no vibrations either … except the turbulent airflow from the gear doors and leg into the relative wind, this has been implemented by Jp and I on my request, thank you Jp! Like for air-brakes proportional to the airspeed, but that one is pure fake feedback, we know that it is not audible and makes no vibration. IRL one can feel the deceleration? Yes, but only at a fair airspeed, at low speed, you feel nothing and air-brakes are much less efficient => proportional sound feedback now in 4.35 … Low speed, weak effects, weak sound feedbacks. Same about the airflow on canopy. … etc …
We are doing you best to provide a conformal simulation. We face some limitations … the first is that we can’t please everyone.
If we tweak the sound for match ppl expectations about what they think the reality is … why not doing it also with FM when ppl think that an F-16 should accelerate more or fake the apparent motion by increasing its speed visually or tweak object size to give the speed sensation that ppl that never flown on a jet in low level expect? … No … a jet in low level is not an SR-71 flying at Mach6Everything is deeply studied and examined carefully … Do we have to justify everything all the time? … always on the same topics … I won’t.
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As promised, here is what you get in 4.35 with the following setting and by suppressing
:\Falcon BMS 4.35 (Internal)\Data\Sounds\Common
airflowcanopy.ogg
airflow(means no more canopy airflow sound nor flyby air-wind sound)
(I’ve “lost” again 2H at least. End of my development time for today, I’ve made nothing valuable for the next update.)
Please, make it sticky.
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As promised, here is what you get in 4.35 with the following setting and by suppressing
:\Falcon BMS 4.35 (Internal)\Data\Sounds\Common
airflowcanopy.ogg
airflow(means no more canopy airflow sound nor flyby air-wind sound)
So i’m clear, just remove “airflowcanopy.ogg” and “airflow.ogg”? Is it possible to copy over the “airflowcanopy.ogg” and “airflow.ogg” from 4.34? I have hearing issues and the 4.35 “wind” sound just bothers my ears, realistic or not. I would prefer silence or close to it… I wish I could appreciate the new sounds but that ship has sailed (hearing damage), but don’t think your work is not GREATLY appreciated!
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DJ… :mrgreen:
now that’s a cacophony holywood (L.A) style … Thank you very much!!!
(I’ve figured that much myself, and edited soundtable already, ~“-10000” as volMin is enough , no need to delete *flow *rumble *wind files, anyway)…
…But… missed the point … … I was asking — how come that you don’t hear/feel teh IMPACT of a missile … you said … the helmet … magic helmet… …but I’m not convinced…
… listen testimony at ~0:20 … light and big explosion … there is no magic helmet nor earplugs that’ll stop explosion shockwave/sound - that if you’re not faster then it but that’s advanced physics
But anyway… case closed… I’ll share my soundtable when I iron it enough … so no so drastic volumes will be needed in future…
Sorry for distractions… and THANKS again.
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Hi all, I’m just wondering if there is a way I can keep the new cockpit sounds, but revert the new external sound back to how they were in 4.34? I find the new jet sound is definitely cooler sounding, though it doesn’t have that deafening roar externally that I enjoyed from 4.34.
Something I used to enjoy in 4.34 was watching jets fly by over head from the perspective of ground units, everything always felt so alive, and also 4.34 had an amazing 17 odd Nautical mile sound bubble! you could laterally hear the roar of multiple flights from tens of miles away! with these new external sounds the planes are literally totally silent after a very very short distance….
This isn’t really a criticism in any way. just a preference of mine to return something that I really enjoyed.
Kind Regards.
good point, the distance is indeed very short but the new sound is better.
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But… missed the point … … I was asking — how come that you don’t hear/feel teh IMPACT of a missile … you said … the helmet … magic helmet… …but I’m not convinced.
Missile do not impact. also, missile do not “explode” like a GBU-31 … it is fragmenting. … at several meter to ten meters or more and It is not 100kg of TNT. You are traveling at about 300Kts away from the sound.
I am not saying hat we can’t hear nothing at all. But not what you think … and not beyond 50 - 100m.
of and attenuated by your canopy from your own internal cockpit ambiance sound filtered by your helmet and ear plugs … what about a missile explosive charge!? ( )
In the cockpit with the helmet on, you can “barely” distinguish…
@white_fang:… listen testimony at ~0:20 … light and big explosion … there is no magic helmet nor earplugs that’ll stop explosion shockwave/sound - that if you’re not faster then it but that’s advanced physics
I’ve been struck two time by a lighting in my career and one time I saw the flash traveling from the front part of the cargo to the read part. I’ve never heard anything.
some friend told me about a “clack!” … but nothing comparable to the thunder. And it depends a lot where the lighting striker IMO.…
Now … if we speak about SA-6/SA-10 missile …
. But you wont hear anything because you will be instantaneously dead.
Again … Falcon4 do not allow to make that easily => compromises. Maybe someday I will have the time to have different missile explosions sound for each of them (or categories).For the time being … use sliders as advised.
But anyway… case closed… I’ll share my soundtable when I iron it enough … so no so drastic volumes will be needed in future…
Keep it for you please. No need to spend my time providing something accurate to get a “pseudo realistic mod” spread all over the place. Otherwise I don’t feel any reasons to continue the adventure on BMS and basta ciao.
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this could be interesting though
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One of my favorite things to do in 4.34 was, after landing, shut down the jet, open my canopy, and watch and listen to other packages arriving and departing while sitting in my cockpit. As already noted in this thread, the sounds were a bit exaggerated. I wished they were a little softer and more realistic.
But now, in 4.35, I park, open my canopy, and I can’t hear ANY nearby jets arriving and departing. Tonight, at two different times, returning packages approached and did an overhead break right over my head prior to landing, only a couple of thousand feet away from me at most– NO sound! (Sound settings: No earplugs, all other sliders at default recommendations) Sorry, but that’s not realistic either. Hopefully, there is a middle ground to be found somewhere.