Training features request
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@Morgan said in Training features request:
No, i don’t miss nothing my friend. I am just expressing a question
So I am not sure why you are asking that question then as I have clearly asked him the reason for this odd request and asked how one option (unlimited fuel) is not acceptable. As I said, claiming realism but then asking for a magic refuel option is a disconnect.
@Morgan said in Training features request:
Has it occurred to you that the time I can devote to the sim may be limited? or we have not put an AAP flight?
So why not focus on what your main objective is? Why do T/O - rejoin - navigate - [main objective] - rejoin - land when you can probably do 2 or 3 rounds of that [main objective] if you start a TE in mid-air a few nm from the fence-in point? Especially if you have limited time, then you are not wasting time on things that you are not focusing on, such as the other phases of flight. Starting in mid-air also eliminates the bad fuel management problem.
Like if a buddy and I want to practice A-A engagements and doing offensive/defensive/neutral starts, we can frag a flight where we do everything from startup to shutdown if we have the time to spare or, as more often is the case, we’ll just skip all of that and fly a dogfight or custom TE.
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@Atlas The high level disconnect is this: he’s not simulating being an air force pilot in a war; he’s simulating being an air force trainee in a simulator.
This is the kind of thing they do.
The word “realism” is being used to mean two things in this thread. (a) real experience and outcomes of a real pilot in a real plane. vs (b) real experience and outcomes of a trainee in a simulator.
In (a) the pilot says: “oh s–t I’m out of fuel … ejecting!”
In (b) the instructor says: “you’ve burned too much fuel at this point… deducting 10 points. now let’s add some fuel, and continue the lesson”
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@Atlas said in Training features request:
So I am not sure why you are asking that question then as I have clearly asked him the reason for this odd request and asked how one option (unlimited fuel) is not acceptable. As I said, claiming realism but then asking for a magic refuel option is a disconnect.
It’s not only you. Someone else also talked about bad training
Im a member and trainer in this squadron and i have to make this question. And with that question i want to tell you to focus in the subject of this topic.@Atlas said in Training features request:
So why not focus on what your main objective is? Why do T/O - rejoin - navigate - [main objective] - rejoin - land when you can probably do 2 or 3 rounds of that [main objective] if you start a TE in mid-air a few nm from the fence-in point? Especially if you have limited time, then you are not wasting time on things that you are not focusing on, such as the other phases of flight. Starting in mid-air also eliminates the bad fuel management problem.
Like if a buddy and I want to practice A-A engagements and doing offensive/defensive/neutral starts, we can frag a flight where we do everything from startup to shutdown if we have the time to spare or, as more often is the case, we’ll just skip all of that and fly a dogfight or custom TE.PLEASE, PLEASE do not tell us what we can do, we ALREADY know.
You spoke about unlimited fuel, unlimited weapons , flights in the frag , AAR, to start the flight near to the main purpose…
Whenever it’s necessary, we do it that way@kodi gave 2 examples and 1 for me. Again please focus on this 3 examples and pay attention in the subject of this topic.
Since you want to take part in this discussion, answer with a <I do not find it a good idea> <I find it a good idea>
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@Ironman3
Greetings All. Why not use the Refueling Realism Settings for your training purposes? -
@airtex2019 said in Training features request:
@Atlas The high level disconnect is this: he’s not simulating being an air force pilot in a war; he’s simulating being an air force trainee in a simulator.
This is the kind of thing they do.
@airtex2019 is just stating the obvious here since it is already clearly seen on the thread title “Training features request”. Also clearly explained multiple times with example missions, why that feature is requested. And as also explained above this is not a unique request, it has been requested again in the past by other vfs. @Atlas you and others may never understand why someone needs that feature, me and others clearly understand why this feature is needed. We just see things differently. Training for a vfs means that many people need to be available at the same time for that purpose. For 2-3 hours. That is not easy when you have family and other RL obligations. So we must make the most of that time. That is why features like that are requested. Trainees can try to implement fuel management BUT if they fail to do it properly they will inform their formation, add some fuel and continue with their mission. In the end not everyone has to understand WHY I WANT a damn flashlight on my Swiss army knife! Have a good day all!
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@Atlas we gave examples, described the way we fly and yet we still trying to prove that the first day of the week is Monday.
I really regret posting this thread and didn’t try to dig a little bit more as I think that I have the solution.
Our squadron wants the ability to fly War and Training too. BMS for now is dedicated to improve war simulation only, it’s stated and is acceptable.
Let’s end it. No point of keep talking about this. If somebody really wants to understand the way we fly please apply for our Iniochos exercise in a few months. There are going to be plenty of docs explaining how we are going to fly but if we continue posting here this is going to be unnecessary.
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Hi everyone,
Let me tell you my opinion about that topic
It’s all about perpective and point of view…
Let me explain myself…@Ironman3 's request is a pure request (like older requests “could we have the IFF functional?” - at previous version). So simple…
The personal perspective is the one that made it so big deal and we have transferred the whole conversation from that simple request to the level of realism…
To be more specific…
If you want to use the instant refueling in order not to move back the throttle out of MAX AB position, it’s totally a cheat and you be ashamed…
But…(There is always a huge but )
If you are planning a training mission (for a new guy let’s say) the problem is the following (as i see it…)
You have to breif (or expain at least at the begining) him about:- SOP
- Tactical Departure
- G Warm up
- Main event (whatever it is)
- Extra events during arrival (IFR, SFO,etc)
Taking for granded that a new e-pilot is burnt out if the briefing exceeds 45’-60’, how are you going to fit the A2A refueling briefing (a very complex exercise) into the already full flight?
And plz don’t tell me “come on it’s easy, you hit this and that and just connect”!!!Remember we talk about realism…
So it will be very grateful is he could add some extra fuel to finish the exercise and as a penalty he will start the next mission (as a counter action to let him understand the importance of his poor fuel management) with less fuel (how less, the excact amount of extra he used)
Case 2: ACT / Complex exercises…
In real life (eg TLP Training) if you want to train better the OCA players into a dynamic environment and taking for granded that you have specific number of A/C, you introduce “Regeneration” procedures…
I think / hope that everyone is familiar with the term…So, in BMS world, we could have the opportunity to make even better!!!
We solved the problem of extra Weapons and we can even (may) solve the problem of the extra fuel with that request (because in real life you have to exit the area, move to tha tanker, doc, come back, etc… and by doing that the VUL is over! So you just regen with the same fuel and you are conservative requarding the AB usage (Lofts and whatever).
But in BMS maybe you can solve this problem (remember that in that kind of mission only one side gets the best of the training and the other team is helping in that direction, so the “instant fueling” will be valid ONLY for dad guys)
And you skip possible connection issues from getting out of 3D into 2D, jump in olanother A/C and recommit with BMS handcuffs (IDM Slots, AI Routes not to mess up with the D-ACT Area, etc)About the level of realism…
There is no point in crossing swords
Training should be based on Docs (BMS Docs, BEM Docs, etc…)Every SQN deep inside knows if he flies as BEM says or cutting some corners…
Best regards,
Runner
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@airtex2019 said in Training features request:
In (b) the instructor says: “you’ve burned too much fuel at this point… deducting 10 points. now let’s add some fuel, and continue the lesson”
B makes so much sense! Is this what they’re actually doing though? Because if so, then that explanation just nails it, but then why are you the one saying it and not them? But yes, if they do B, then fair enough.
@Morgan @danaos75 @Ironman3
Thanks for the insight. I’ll just leave it at that.Have a nice day and all the best with your missions!
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@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
BMS for now is dedicated to improve war simulation only, it’s stated and is acceptable.
Can’t let that go by without pointing out that this may be your opinion but given the history of features the team has added it’s manifestly obvious that this statement isn’t accurate. Just because a dev didn’t jump on your particular request doesn’t mean there’s any lack of interest in training as a general topic.
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@Boxer to be fair, OP is only reflecting what was said, at the top – “absolutely out the question” to put something like that in BMS.
We all appreciate that not every area of functionality can be invested in, all at once, all the time. it’s good that BMS team has clear focus on priorities. I think OP acknowledged that, and also that priorities and goals may change in the future – by qualifying it with “for now”.
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@airtex2019 said in Training features request:
@Boxer to be fair, OP is only reflecting what was said, at the top – “absolutely out the question” to put something like that in BMS.
We all appreciate that not every area of functionality can be invested in, all at once, all the time. it’s good that BMS team has clear focus on priorities. I think OP acknowledged that, and also that priorities and goals may change in the future – by qualifying it with “for now”.
All true but equally true is that lack of uptake on one feature nominally to support training does not mean that there is no interest in or work going towards training as an important activity in the game to support. Sweeping generalizations are not helpful. #FakeNews, lol
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@airtex2019
Thanks to you my friend and a team member of our squadron (Knight you rock!!!) we managed to make our “cheat”. The answer was a script!!! Although we found the solution we examine the possibility of reentering the 3d in already airborne aircrafts as we are quite openminded.So mark as solved by us of course as promised!!!
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Maybe something like this
JetFighter III (PC/DOS) 1996, Mission Studios