The CBU 97/105 Effectiveness (lack there of)
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@Seifer When you go from killing an entire column of tanks to only 4-7 it seems like the JSOWs have been “neutered” to me. We never run out of JSOWs because they hardly get used now. So perhaps the Mission 15: Training mission should be altered to reflect the current changes? There’s no way you are going to neutralize one column let alone two.
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@Kavelenko yes, you could also use it to neutralize an entire base, battalions, divisions and if you still had one on your back, use it as fox2 to kill su35s.
Jokes aside (airbase was no joke), its still a very lethal weapon. 4 jsow can easily wipe a battallion. One of my squad mates is a jsow specialist and he often gets a lot of kills (10-20).
Its just not a nuke anymore. And now you have to use proper weapons to destroy an airbase.
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@Seifer Didn’t test as much but 87s still cover the more or less same area as 97/105
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@Seifer Would love to hear about your friends employement of jsows. nailing the attack azimuth seems impossible to me, always reverting back to aligning jet with the column somehow
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@Seifer said in The CBU 97/105 Effectiveness (lack there of):
Jokes aside (airbase was no joke), its still a very lethal weapon. 4 jsow can easily wipe a battallion. One of my squad mates is a jsow specialist and he often gets a lot of kills (10-20).
lol I dont leave the bar for less than 60 kills, I think my best WAS 127 in one mission but that was before 4.36
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@SyntaxErol what he does is to set targets in recon window, splitting the weapons over the column. Now, as for the azimuth, it could be a bug and we need to check.
Although this thread got a bit derailed.
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@SyntaxErol I don’t think it matters too much – unless there are buildings to avoid, or topography to consider. Maybe strong winds at ground level? I think AGM-154A (real life and sim) deploys all submunitions in a single burst.
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@airtex2019 azimuth matters when attacking columns in line mode. Need to test this, if its broken , must be fixed
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@Seifer I don’t even get any meaningful separation from a pair of JSOWs, targetting a column along its azimuth. Let alone a single JSOW.
(Repro case is just TR#15… I may have some ACMI handy.)
It seems better than 4.36 (I haven’t seen any turn 180 degrees and head wrong direction!) and they do at least seem to try to turn in on specified azimuth… so I think maybe there were some improvements in the code.
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Looking at ACMI… they come in on correct azimuth and with roughly desired separation, in the air / in time… but they burst/impact at almost the exact same spot.
This pair was launched az=270, ba=1200 ft, separation=3000 ft … for scale I believe this column is about 6000 ft long.
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@airtex2019 thanks we probably need to take a look at this.
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@Seifer is it possible that cbu covarage can be modded/edited ? Or is it up to you guys to fix ?
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@SyntaxErol it is, though I am not the best person to say how. Still, editing the CBU value without proper guidance or agreement is like cheating imho.
But you are free to fly however you want. You may have problems in MP though, as I think server checks the db.
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@Seifer I meant to add – the aim-point here was directly on the “T” intersection of the two columns.
The first pig hit with desired offset from that point, but the second pig hit nearly exactly the same units – scored zero additional kills, maybe a little added splash damage to some trucks.
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@Seifer well i couldnt realy achieve the desired covarage via editing the attached cbu105 page on editor. Increased damage/blast radius to near nuclear levels but still nothing after hitting save. Maybe im doing wrong ? Maybe there is a different way to edit its performance ? Im a bit lost tbh
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@SyntaxErol as I said, it depends on the damage model of the weapon. Some of those values will be completely ignored. Probably someone from Db side can help here, not really my area.
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So my workaround for now is to just launch singles. (Which is frankly easier than trying to guesstimate the exact distance between two points on the FCR.)
I would say, they do also seem to have better effect when azimuth aligned with the target column. Avg ~3-4 kills vs 1-2 kills.
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Because ya’ll searchin’ for trouble in a wrong place. Editing db won’t help much else then change HE to AP. and hit ratio… but ‘bombdata’ may have some “impact” .
But!!!, be real, AGM154/CBU-87 is NOT anti-tank weapon… can you imagine skeet burning through armor of M1A1 or T90 ? which can sustain direct hit with 100mm HE shell …(maybe not APFSDS) … but you get the pic.
It is even questionable for MK-20D(100) … for today’s armors., old stuff like M-60 or T-64… older T-72 …probably yes…
But even new T-72/80(90’s mod)… I would need to see it to believe it can pierce/penetrate those “can’s”.Also, now, not sure is it modeled correctly, but clusters footprint is never a circle… but ellipsis. - there’s even nice pic of it in 1-1. - somehow, exactly for AGM154A .
No wonder you have to hit a column “inline” to get more hits… hints … whatever -
Tanks are still very thin from top.
And very fragile, lots of T-90’s are burning on ukraine Fields now…
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@Seifer Any insight from the code on this?
@jayb said in The CBU 97/105 Effectiveness (lack there of):
That old post brought up some interesting points. Is burst altitude stated in Sea Level or AGL ? Seems to be some mixed information in that thread and that is pretty crucial for the dispersion