4.37 killed the AMRAAM
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@Mav-jp do you know of any videos out there someone has done that could be a reliable learning tool for using the slammer correctly?
I know Lorik is in the thread now (howdy mate) but I am wondering if I’m the problem and shooting the wrong way?
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@airtex2019 Yep, it’s almost like the AMRAAM leaves the rail in MADDOG mode and never tracks the target until Husky/Pitbull.
I’ve watched countless times now with Shift7 to watch what the slammer is doing and it’s mind boggling
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@WPNS24 said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
By the way, being I worked weapons on the Falcon for my 20 year career I can tell you that hung bombs happen more often than the sim spits out, which I’m ok with but everyone hates a hung store because in a sim world, we want everything to work 100% of the time.
Most real world viper drivers maybe get 1 or 2 chances to shoot a live missile IRL during their careers. I deployed to WSEP twice and we never had a hung missile ( out of appx 18 shots) Now I haven’t the slightest clue on the actual number of possible hung missiles/bad missiles there are, unless we got into a real war, but I do know that a live AIM-120 does a “bit check” with the LX and aircraft to ensure it’s working correctly and as long as that passes, the missile was good -
@Tumbler31 Thanks!!
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@WPNS24 said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
@airtex2019 Yep, it’s almost like the AMRAAM leaves the rail in MADDOG mode and never tracks the target until Husky/Pitbull.
I’ve watched countless times now with Shift7 to watch what the slammer is doing and it’s mind boggling
The aim120 does not track the target before hprf or mprf , why would you think it does ???
It does track a potential target which is extrapolated from FCR with all errors build in
As I said the amount of errors are dépendant on distance from target (the closest the smallest error ) , FCR sublode Stt>Sam>tws and target velocity
It’s amazing how people just don’t understand the predicted target can be miles away from the actual target
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@Mav-jp said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
It’s amazing how people just don’t understand the predicted target can be miles away from the actual target
is it so hard to understand how this is hard to understand? I mean, at the moment of launch, there’s a green square on my HUD showing the target… it’s not off by 5 miles. and a cross indicator on MFD showing the lead-pursuit path to intercept.
Pretty sure I can switch radar off and fly that straight-line intercept course, manually, and pass within 5nm of the cargo plane.
Is there no compass in the aim-120 guidance system? Is the inertial sensor that inaccurate, as the missile accelerates off the rail? (I think only -D model has GPS … not sure about that. but hey I suppose they must have added it for a reason, eh.)
Ok, the answer may be “yes it’s that inaccurate” but then why does STT mode perform better?
It’s all very confusing for us poor armchair pilots.
These missiles cost more than my house… so kinda expect more from my tax dollars.
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We tried as real as it gets but apparently we went too far
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@MaxWaldorf And bro, that’s A-OK, that’s why BMS is awesome. Devs putting in tons of hours for our enjoyment but when I expect something to behave a certain way especially since it has behaved that way for a very long time and then it starts to NOT behave that way, questions are formulated and opinions are expressed. The slammer has an internal INS system and unlike an AIM-9 it needs that 1-2 seconds after the pickle button is depressed for it to come off the rail, it is gathering the last known data about the target before it leaves the jet and then it is guided by datalink to the best possible intercept of that target. So for it to not track the target from the beginning seems suspect to me, hence why it directs a loft angle in the attack profile, it’s calculating what it wants to achieve best PK before it leaves the rail, is it not?
Oh, and the J-20 that shows as a 22 on the RWR… Just run away, I can’t burn through its ECM jamming, tried on several occasions LOL.
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@Mav-jp I was looking through the forums and couldn’t find a whole lot but at the beginning 4.37 was logging every A-A kill accurately but lately it’ll say I downed an aircraft, hit destroyed in the debriefing but it’ll say 0(0) for kills, also doesn’t go into the logbook.
Not a biggie but just letting you know it seems random in 4.37
I read that sometimes going external view can mess up this aspect of the sim so I will test that too but it’s hard not to because we have awesome Wing skins and 4.37 looks so damn good outside now!!
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@Mav-jp Got ya, so when it started acting a little funny in 4.36 we weren’t losing our minds. You are right, we all got used to the arcade style of AMRAAM 90% kill ratio regardless of what we did, even snipping and MADDOG had high PK. I appreciate you explaining this, I missed it earlier. We look forward to working and improving BMS and updating our tactics to ensure better kill and our survivabilities.
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@Mav-jp - it’s not a flight model change that got my attention - it’s the “maneuvering target” change you made. I want to be rid of that.
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@hiuuz - I think they are mixed up about what “accurate” means in regard to the AIM-7 vs the AIM-120…the “accuracy” has more to do with keeping the beam on the target because of how narrow it is, to support getting the AIM-7 there - that’s what STT was developed to do. As far as the AIM-120 goes I don’t think it particularly adds or subtracts anything but the ability to surveil the airspace.
I don’t know what TTS is either…
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TTS = Two Target SAM
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You don’t always have to get a KILL…
They turn back? Yes. That is a win. -
@Tumbler31 said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
@WPNS24 said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
By the way, being I worked weapons on the Falcon for my 20 year career I can tell you that hung bombs happen more often than the sim spits out, which I’m ok with but everyone hates a hung store because in a sim world, we want everything to work 100% of the time.
Most real world viper drivers maybe get 1 or 2 chances to shoot a live missile IRL during their careers. I deployed to WSEP twice and we never had a hung missile ( out of appx 18 shots) Now I haven’t the slightest clue on the actual number of possible hung missiles/bad missiles there are, unless we got into a real war, but I do know that a live AIM-120 does a “bit check” with the LX and aircraft to ensure it’s working correctly and as long as that passes, the missile was goodI’ll probably get one now but I have never gotten a WPN MAL of any sort since MAL was implemented. Hundreds of hours and weapon releases. So when other people get it I shrug.
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@AviationPlus - that’s called a “soft kill”.
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Hi,
After following this thread, I revisited trying DT SAM mode as per this old thread:-
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?38131-RWS-Dual-Target-Situation-Awareness-sub-mode-videoI can now report that this mode now seems to work very well and consistently in 4.37. Furthermore during my albeit limited testing in a custom TE at 100% realism and Redfor AI set to ace, I could generally splash pairs of Opfor Mig 27s and 29s with only the odd “leaker” getting through, using the AIM 120C.
Up until now I had been using the RWS to TWS methods I had always used in the past. With 4.37 and to a slightly lesser extent, 4.36, things got tougher with wayward missiles etc.After reading Mav-jps answers in regards to realism improvements in this area, I have to say that being impressed would be an understatement! The constant learning and sometimes relearning of old and entrenched methods and techniques epitomises what I love about BMS.
Kind Regards
Dram. -
@WPNS24
“everyone hates a hung store because in a sim world, we want everything to work 100% of the time.”I hate hung stores too, but in a sim world I accept completely that not everything works 100% of the time, as in real life. This adds more challange, what you must handle in those rare occasions. Otherwise this would be only a game
Besides, with those “random factors”. Something “shit” has a 20-80% chance to happen. If I do everything as “described in book” and it happens 20-30% of the time, other time if I mess up things and it happens 70-80% of the time, than it’s OK. But if no matter what I do, and it happens 20-80% of the time, than it’s not what I like.
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@Stevie said in 4.37 killed the AMRAAM:
@Mav-jp - it’s not a flight model change that got my attention - it’s the “maneuvering target” change you made. I want to be rid of that.
You mean the final manœuvre (pull up ?)
I didn’t created it , it was there from the start
For the rest they just pump as soon as they have a rwr M spike and have learnt to crank when they support their missiles
This is what human do why don’t you want AI to do it ?
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@Dram Thanks for pointing me to this thread, I have used DT SAM before but TWS always worked so well, so I never bothered going back to it until 4.36-4.37.