BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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Good Day, All. Here is an U1 update. We spent yesterday looking at U1 as related to our Mafia stuff. We have the new F-18’s working in our db. Good news #1
Good news number 2 is that the BMS Devs did some really good work, especially with the F18E/F. Not only were they able to remove the spin behavior ,but they did it while retaining the autothrottle,etc… We saw how they did that, and are looking at ways to put it to work in jets like the F-35C. We are also looking at the Harrier.
Also, the Mafia continues work on the F-15E, and there may be more coming about the Tornado -
@drtbkj
If I may add, an advanced flight model for the Eurofighter Typhoon is also available and a refurbishment of Qawa’s Eurofighter Typhoon 3D cockpit from FF5 is also in the works and making good progress (with Qawa’s approval). -
@Scorpion82 said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@drtbkj
If I may add, an advanced flight model for the Eurofighter Typhoon is also available and a refurbishment of Qawa’s Eurofighter Typhoon 3D cockpit from FF5 is also in the works and making good progress (with Qawa’s approval).Scorpion, I haven’t had time to check the Eurofighter. Isn’t that included in the “stock”
4.37 KTO? It will be in ours -
Another update for new Member Dandywalken. Discord is not letting me make you a member. I’ve not had this happen before. Would you please repeat the “complaint to RR” process?
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@drtbkj said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@Scorpion82 said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@drtbkj
If I may add, an advanced flight model for the Eurofighter Typhoon is also available and a refurbishment of Qawa’s Eurofighter Typhoon 3D cockpit from FF5 is also in the works and making good progress (with Qawa’s approval).Scorpion, I haven’t had time to check the Eurofighter. Isn’t that included in the “stock”
4.37 KTO? It will be in oursNot the flight model and some other stuff isn’t included as well.
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@Scorpion82 said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@drtbkj said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@Scorpion82 said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@drtbkj
If I may add, an advanced flight model for the Eurofighter Typhoon is also available and a refurbishment of Qawa’s Eurofighter Typhoon 3D cockpit from FF5 is also in the works and making good progress (with Qawa’s approval).Scorpion, I haven’t had time to check the Eurofighter. Isn’t that included in the “stock”
4.37 KTO? It will be in oursNot the flight model and some other stuff isn’t included as well.
Thx, for the update. It will be in ours!
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Good Day, All. This is a proud day for us. The Mafia has passed the 100-member milestone!
Also, we are very close( as in possibly tomorrow) to start presenting our 4.37 Theaters. Unlike the 4.36 versions, which we’ve found work in 4.37, the new ones will reflect what we’ve learned so far from 37.
A Changelog will be posted. -
@drtbkj woot! Was just playing. Ofm kto 4.36 last night wondering about this.
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@Cpt_Communist said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@drtbkj woot! Was just playing. Ofm kto 4.36 last night wondering about this.
Hi, Cpt. They are coming…
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Good Day, All. This Update is about the jamming system on various jets. As we have previously discussed, we have decided to go with the USAF jamming model. It’s still a bit of a tough call. IDIAS seems more realistic to the F-18/35/others Family, but to model it you lose the more realistic RWR display in the HUD. We left it it you how important that is, and it’s easy to set up IDIAS in your jet of choice.
Anyway, I asked yesterday, in another thread, what happens when you CMS-aft? That sparked a good conversation over in the Mafia Discord. We were able to determine that when you power the jammer XMIT 1-5 are on Standby. While I remain personally unclear whether you activate these button before combat OR select one at a time during, apparently you need those 5 XMIT mode buttons. So, we have upgraded the F-18 and Fifth Gen. Pits to reflect that and Brother Musurca did the same for the Tornado. -
Good Day, All. Today’s update could be called “living with the 4.37 jammer” in the Hornet,Fifth Gen., and Tornado pits.
We’ve been working on the pits with a couple of goals. First, simply get it to work even for people with austere HOTAS’s. Second, to give people the option of the USAF or IDIAS without a lot of hassle.
The pits , that will be in OFM 1.6 Theaters,have hotspots for all the buttons needed for both systems. Plus, If your HOTAS has a 4-way switch, you have another option…
The procedure is 1) Go to x/4.37/Data/your theater/Sim/acdata/ your jets folder. In the avionics section look for avionicsRWRType ( this is for the Viper)
avionicsRWRType 1 ( this is for the Viper model)
avionicsRWRType 3 will give you IDIAS
avionicsRWRType 5 will give you the USAF model with the RWR-on-HUD display
2a) USAF-map CMS up,down, left,and right as usual . Then, map SimXMit1 ,SimXMit2 ,and SimXMit3 as shifted commands under the CMS’s. This gives you full HOTAS capability once you have powered the jammer and pressed the SimEcmMode1-5( which are in all 3 cockpits)
2b) IDIAS-It’s the same procedure as above except you map ECM XMIT TOGGLE instead of CMS Down. You don’t need the 3 XMIT commands.
There are other ways to do this, but this method has been tested in 3D -
Good Day, All. Todays update is regarding the upcoming OFM Theaters, and the Mediafire Mafia Files.
Although slightly delayed by an ice storm at Brother Eddie’s place AND that fellow Mafia members keep presenting new Stuff ( a very good thing) , we are very close to releasing. As in, perhaps tonight. No 3-4 Mafia Weeks, I promise
As for the Mafia Files, they now include a 4.37 Data Files Section https://www.mediafire.com/folder/zb5x9n9n69y4k/BMS+4.37+Data+Files
Currently, it contains the cockpit files for both the Hornet Pit ( for F-18 C-G and others) and the Fifth Gen. Pit. Let me know if you need help installing them .They also include 4.37 jammer functionality. Further, it has the current OFM Flight Model Files for the F-18 C and E and the F-35C. Others like the Tornado will be there soon. -
@drtbkj said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
Good Day, All. Todays update is regarding the upcoming OFM Theaters, and the Mediafire Mafia Files.
Although slightly delayed by an ice storm at Brother Eddie’s place AND that fellow Mafia members keep presenting new Stuff ( a very good thing) , we are very close to releasing. As in, perhaps tonight. No 3-4 Mafia Weeks, I promise
As for the Mafia Files, they now include a 4.37 Data Files Section https://www.mediafire.com/folder/zb5x9n9n69y4k/BMS+4.37+Data+Files
Currently, it contains the cockpit files for both the Hornet Pit ( for F-18 C-G and others) and the Fifth Gen. Pit. Let me know if you need help installing them .They also include 4.37 jammer functionality. Further, it has the current OFM Flight Model Files for the F-18 C and E and the F-35C. Others like the Tornado will be there soon.I hope the updated “BMS 4.37 Data Files” folder contains manuals and instructions on how to install it, which will be a friendly help to new people. Thank you!
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@asleepwater I agree. We try to plug Readmes everywhere(there’s one in 1.6), plus the Fighters’ Manuals do cover a lot of that . However, one of these days I’m going to write up a generic How-to DOC that we can present .Also, the main reason we went to Installers is that we do realize that everyone doesn’t know where everything goes.
All, after a marathon couple of days OFMKTO 1.6 is ready! As soon as I post this, I’ll be moving over to Theater Discussion for the release. I have to say I’m really proud of this one. Not only for what’s in it, but because this was the first true Mafia group effort.
Let me make a comment about the AIM-120D that is included, as we actually gave it some thought. Although anything can be improved, we feel it’s flight model is realistic. But, we wondered if some might see it as a “cheater missile” (although we honestly feel it is NOT). So, we didn’t go crazy with putting it on all jets that could realistically carry it . We left that to the User. It’s easy to add via the Editor. Just add it to your jets Squadron Stores then hardpoint(s) for your jet. -
Good Day, All. Today’s update is about the new OFMKTO 1.6 Hotfix, which just came out. The links and notes are in post#1 of it’s thread.
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As Hudson would say “It’s a Bug Hunt!” We have the second new OFM theater(Nevada) done, but are holding it while we work on 2 issues. The first is regarding the Aim-120 D against certain jets. That’s a weird one, but we think we have it figured out. More on that later.
The second is that some people are having more then normal ctd’s. We think we know what is happening and are working on the why it’s happening.
It’s been a rough week for bugs but as we like to say “Forgetta 'bout it” The good news is, once we work the bugs out we can do the other Theaters quickly.
Anyway, how the experiment using Mega links is working? Are you seeing faster downloads then the Mediafire links? -
Good Day, All. We have solved the Aim-120D “guidance” issue but the solution somehow made the HUD look like you were shooting a Sparrow! We’re working on it.
We also think we have a plan to fix the intermittent ctd problem. It’s inconsistancy is strange. I’ve run the same mission 4 times and only ctd’s once. -
Good Day, All. There has been discussion in a couple of threads about the AIM-120 D missile we have presented. I though this was the appropriate place to respond
"@Mav-jp said in OFMKTO 1.6 for BMS 4.37:Guys i understand that this mod is made with Passion and dedication ,
i’s good to have
But you cannot do things like this, i can’t speak for the BMS team, but personnaly i can’t agree to see BMS moded like this.
PLease ask questions , and listen to the guys who know , that’s the best way to learn "
Apparently, the AIM-120D Project has sparked some controversy. That’s good, that’s how things get improved.
Let me give the Group some back round on Project Slammer D. We saw situations in 1v.1’a where we were getting shot and weren’t even in our range . We saw situations where transport AC were outrunning missiles. We don’t think that is realistic ,either. Apparently, we are not the only people to see such things. So, as we like to do, we gave the BMS membership a choice.
We have made it very plain that it’s not perfect, or a completed project. The goal was to make a missile whose in-action performance matches what we’ve found in real world documentation. As we do not, as you know, have hard code access, we work with what we can. So, we are very aware that some data values are off.
For the sake of our conversation on this subject I reached out to the person who did the actual technical work on the Project(who is unfortunately no longer with BMS). His response to you was " You can suggest to MavJP to review the use of MissileDATCOM (and massage the engine data, and seeker performance of the missile) to arrive at the public source performance data for the 120D . . . Which has been stated at over 100 nmi". However, Mav, I would not presume to question your knowledge of the subject, nor is that the main issue for me at the moment.
You ask that we “ask questions and listen”. I am troubled by the impression that may give to the Membership . We have reached out. Menawhile, as above, we do what we can with what we have.
But, please do not take the above statement as adversarial. The BMS Dev’s, including you, are not our enemies, nor are we yours. We are all united by our passion for BMS.
I’ve written this many times and here’s one more .If you, or anyone, wants to help us make this missile( or anything else ) better, you will see just how well we listen. -
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@drtbkj said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
Good Day, All. There has been discussion in a couple of threads about the AIM-120 D missile we have presented. I though this was the appropriate place to respond
to arrive at the public source performance data for the 120D . . . Which has been stated at over 100 nmi".Guys,
you DO iunderstand that this statement means absolutly NOTHING , do you ?
Then
PHYSICS RULES ! you can’t justify modeling a fuel that is >40% efficient than the real one. -
So, Let’s do a bit of physics here
for the AIM120C :
Please refer to this document :
https://zaretto.com/sites/zaretto.com/files/missile-aerodynamic-data/AIM120C5-Performance-Assessment-rev2.pdfThis analysis is very good.
The guy, based on the shape of the missile and the known top speed has estimatedWeight Propellant : 50Kg
Isp : 265
Burn Time : 7.75sEjectedMassperSecond = 50 / 7.75 = 6.45
ThrustPerSec = Gravity * ISP * EjectedMassPerSecond
This gives a thrust per second of (in SI units)ThrustPerSec = 9.8 * 265 * 6.45 = 16750 N/sec
Total THRUST = 16750 * 7.75 = 129 917 N = 29207 Lbs
Actually the guy said he found in
Hazard of Classification of Unite States Military Explosives ans Munitions Revision 14 2009
the real mass beeing 51.26 KgWhich would make in his model :
total THRUST = 133 122 N = 29 928 Lbs
BMS AIM120 Modeling:
Weight : 113 Lbs = 51.25567 Kg
Isp = 238
Burn Time : 7.4875 stotal THRUST = 119 393 N
so that means that BMS model is 12% less impulse than this guys model, however, that does not mean performance is different as comparison of Drag between the missiles needs to be done
All of this is however in the range of th ephysically reasonnable
Now let’s go to your missile:
Weight : 113 Lbs = 51.25567
BurnTime = 99.975
EjectedMassperSecond = 51.25567 / 99.975 = 0.51268total THRUST = 49687 Lbs = 221 008 N
that means your ISP = (221 008 / ( 99.975 * 9.8 * 0.51268)) = 440
You just modeled a fuel that is 51% more efficient that the fuel know for those kind of application , read
Rocket Propulsion Elements George, P, Sutton 2001
this is NO GO
And this is where you realize that without changing drastically the shape of the missile, which means the weight of properllant it can carry, you can’t reach the performances of the marketing guys
i would suggest for the AIM120D to take those values:
Weight : 113 Lbs = 51.25567 Kg
Isp = 260
Burn Time : 7.4875 swhich would mean
Weight of propellant (lbs)
113.00Motor Impulse (lb-sec)
29358BRNTIME
5
+0.000000 +0.100000 +0.125000
+7.600000 +7.625000#-----------------------------------------------------
ENGINE THRUST (LBS)
#-----------------------------------------------------+0.000000 +0.000000 +3921.000000
+3921.000000 +0.000000
Then recalculate with MDM the corresponding DZL tables