F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on
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@Rouge1512 The Threat Guide page 65. Obvious init
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Well , if “Ftrs” is F15, it is really obvious … but we have also an Ftrs in the I column .
So, what does mean Ftrs ?
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@Rouge1512 Ftrs = Fighters
The chevron above indicates that, so you can see the F-14 is H band.
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I thought we could access the previous updates’ documentations in the wiki, but we can only access the last update of the last 2 versions : 4.35.3 et 4.36.3 (and 4.37.2 of course).
I suppose we can say that all fighters’ radars are in I or J bands (Program 5), appart for very few exceptions including F-14 in H band (Program 4). Isn’t it ?Is there other fighters (or aircrafts) outside the J&K bands ?EDIT :
My mistake, I mixed Bands and Progams.
ECM Program 4 = Bands H&I
ECM Program 5 = Bands J&KSo, as Fighters are mainly in I or J bands, you would need to use, by default Program 4 and Program 5. Deactivating Program 4 only when you want to get ride of the 30% FCR’s detection capability degradation due to jamming on I band (F-16C Radar band).
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Thanks a lot.
As Checkpoint points out, there is obviously an efficiency bonus for those who have the time to try their ECM against all aircrafts to determine what band their radar is transmitting in, but it would be nice if this data was provided more clearly in documentation, as it had begun to be in the early 4.37 documents.
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@Rouge1512 Math is simple…
BMS is more or less 15 really active people…We can’t cover all grounds…
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Hello @MaxWaldorf
My semantic was not aggressive and did not come across as reproachful.
Being fully aware of what you write, it was just a solicitation to put it in the “to do” list, at the priority place that can only be of your choice. -
My mistake, I mixed Bands and Progams in my previous post
@CheckPoint said
I suppose we can say that all fighters’ radars are in I or J bands (Program 5), appart for very few exceptions including F-14 in H band (Program 4). Isn’t it ?
Is there other fighters (or aircrafts) outside the J&K bands ?This is in fact wrong …
ECM Program 4 = Bands H&I
ECM Program 5 = Bands J&KSo, as Fighters are mainly in I or J bands, you would need to use, by default Program 4 and Program 5. Deactivating Program 4 only when you want to get ride of the 30% FCR’s detection capability degradation due to jamming on I band (F-16C Radar band).
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Bellow the radars table from 4.37.0 Dash 34
Warning : I supposed it has been removed from the documentation because it may be wrong or incomplete.For instance, for the F-14 radars, reported to be H bands :
- AN/AWG-9 (F-14A) is I bands
- AN/AWG-15 (F-14B & D) is not present in the table
TABLE
Radar System Band Search 1 Band Search 2 Band Search 3 Band Acquire Band Guide TPS-830K I I I J J UV-26 U U U U U Vega-M I I I I I Naval (Type 1) E E E G G Naval (Type 2) I I J H H Naval (Type 3) L L I I I A-4 AGRS J J J J J AN_AGP-66 I I I I I AN_AGP-68V4 I I I I I AN_AGP-68V9 I I I I I AN_APG-63 I I I I I AN_APG-65 I I I I I AN_APG-66V2A I I I I I AN_APG-70 J J J J J AN_APG-71 I I I I I AN_APG-73 I I I I I AN_APG-77 I I I I I AN_APG-78 M M M M M AN_APQ-99 I I I I I AN_APQ-109 I I I I I AN_APQ-120 I I I I I AN_APQ-145 J J J J J AN_APQ-159 I I I I I AN_APY-2 F F F F F AN_AWG-9 I I I I I AN_MPQ-46 D D D I J AN_MPQ-50 C C C C C AN_MPQ-53 G G G G G AN_MPQ-55 I I I J J Antilope_5 I I I I I APS-145 F F F F F Bar_Lock E E E F F Big_Bird E E E E E Chair_Back I I I I I Clam_Pipe J J J J J Crown_Drum J J J J J Cyrano_II I I I I I Cyrano_IVM J J J J J Dog_Ear G G G G G ECR-90_Captor I I I I I F-5_AGRS I I I I I F-14_AGRS I I I I I F-15_AGRS J J J J J F-16_AGRS I I I I I F-18_AGRS I I I I I Fan_Song_E/F G G G G G Fan_Song_F G G G G G Fire_Can E E E E E Fire_Dome H H H H H Flap_Lid I I I J J Flat_Face C C C C C Foxhunter I I I I I Generic E E E G G GMR_TFR I I I I I Gun_Dish J J J J J Hot_Shot E E E E J Kam_Lung_GD-53 I I I I I KLJ-5 I I I I I Kopyo-25 I I I I I KSAM E E E F J Land_Roll H H H J J Long_Track E E E E E Low_Blow I I I I D MAWS I I I I I N011ME_Bars I I I I I N019_Sapfir-29 I I I I I N019M_Topaz I I I I I Nike D D D F I Pat_Hand H H H H H PNA-D_Rubin D D D D D PS_37 I I I I I RBE2 I I I I I RDI I I I I I RDY I I I I I RP-21_Sapfir I I I I I RP-22_Sapfir-21 I I I I I RP-23ML_Sapfir-23 I I I I I RP-25M_Sapfir-25 J J J J J RP-26_Taifun I I I I I RP-31_Zaslon J J J J J SCP-01_Scipio I I I I I Scrum_Half H H H G J Skyguard I I I I I Snap_Shot K K K K K Snow_Drift F F F F F Spoon_Rest A A A A A Square_Pair H H H H H SRD-3_Grad I I I I I SRD-5M_Kvantum I I I I I Straight_Flush G G G H I
Based on that table I started a file to make Threats to ECM Program correspondance in January when 4.37 came out, but I didn’t pursue for the reason I highlighted at the beggining of this very post.
Nevertheless, I share it here ECM Tables.xlsx
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@CheckPoint GO in sim data folder…
In radar, you should see text files with info in it…
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Thanks
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@MaxWaldorf said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@CheckPoint GO in sim data folder…
In radar, you should see text files with info in it…
It was more or less my next step : dig in the docs and editor to find the information.
Thanks for the tip.
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@CheckPoint said
It was more or less my next step : dig in the docs and editor to find the information.
Thanks for the tip.
Few hours later I completed the shared file (ECM Tables.xlsx) with info from the DB (Aircraft to Radar from BMS Editor & Radar to Bands in Falcon BMS 4.37\Data\Sim\Radar).
Main findings, as per in current 4.37.2 KTO DB
- Appart from F-15C and later version which I checked are in J band (Prog 5) …
- … all the other planes found so far are in I band (Prog 4) …
- … including the F-14.
Nota : I did not include the MiG-31 … yet.
EDIT : I just figured out the answer was already there …
@Master-Yoda said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@Rouge1512 The f-15 is jammed with program 5 not 4. Same with the Mig-31. All other aircraft, program 4
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@CheckPoint Also, i forgot to mention that if you want maximum jamming performance in mode 3, only one program should be active. It was in the changelog for u2 but really a fine print that someone could miss. Did some tests with multiple programs active and the hostile could burnthrough further away as he should so make sure you have the correct program selected. Basically in all campaigns as BLUFOR you use only program 4 and when Ruzzia enters the war, pay attention for mig-31’s and use program 5.
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in the continuity of a BVR fight against F15C, I’d like to pick up one point: I noted a defensive dexterity of the AI pilots rather surprising near the opposing missiles closing in on them…as if they had the visual on the missile. In almost cases, they start a downward spiral at less than 2NM…which forces the opposing missile to exhaust its kinetic energy…Is this realistic to proceed like this in defense?
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@CheckPoint said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
Bellow the radars table from 4.37.0 Dash 34
For instance, for the F-14 radars, reported to be H bands :- AN/AWG-9 (F-14A) is I bands
- AN/AWG-15 (F-14B & D) is not present in the table
@CheckPoint said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@CheckPoint said > >
- … all the other planes found so far are in I band (Prog 4) …
- … including the F-14.
Minor point, the only info I can find on the AWG-15 is as a fire control computer and seems to be used in conjunction with the AWG-9. I don’t believe the F-14B ever stopped using the AWG-9, and the F-14D did use the APG-71 and it was an I band as listed there.