Correct evasion technic when a SA-6 fire at you
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Hi Dear BMS Team,
I would like to have yours hints and suggestion to operate correctly once a SA-6 fired to me. I have some difficulty to evade and need help.
Thanks a lot.
Gundam
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@gundam It reflects the real life. The missile of the KUB can pull ~ 15G at low-med alt. It means even if you fly with ~ M0.8 you need to pull at least 4G+ to defeat it kinematically.
This is why was a big leap the F-16. It could do this.
F-4 could not. It would run out from speed. Even the F-16 had to drop the altitude dramatically. -
@gundam said in Correct evasion technic when a SA-6 fire at you:
Hi Dear BMS Team,
I would like to have yours hints and suggestion to operate correctly once a SA-6 fired to me. I have some difficulty to evade and need help.
Thanks a lot.
Gundam
Hi @gundam
Checkout the Aviation Plus YouTube channel (aka Prime). There are vids about evading all the main SAM systems in BMS
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjcJgAsk-VulfFA7lmWwpN5QbR4S-_yHc
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@gundam basically, all air defense systems, including SA-6 and above, “close” part of the airspace. It’s better to stay away at all costs even at very low altitudes (only ~10 miles in case of SA-6/11) than to ask how to get your hand out of boiling water.
Also check “The Vault” in the doc folder.
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Hi. Thanks to all for the contributions, very useful for me. I will check and deep dive on this for sure.
Gundam
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@gundam said in Correct evasion technic when a SA-6 fire at you:
Hi Dear BMS Team,
I would like to have yours hints and suggestion to operate correctly once a SA-6 fired to me. I have some difficulty to evade and need help.
Thanks a lot.
Gundam
No real proven methods. 3/9 max Gs, fly away AFAP.
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@Dee-Jay Do they not maneuver to put the launching missile perpendicular to the flight path, and then fly a sort of ‘wave’ turning upside down and pulling G’s nose up and then flipping upright and pulling G’s nose up again while popping
flareschaff (when it gets close) at the peaks and troughs of this ‘wave’ maneuver? Or is that a technique for different missiles? -
@SemlerPDX said in Correct evasion technic when a SA-6 fire at you:
@Dee-Jay Do they not maneuver to put the launching missile perpendicular to the flight path, and then fly a sort of ‘wave’ turning upside down and pulling G’s nose up and then flipping upright and pulling G’s nose up again while popping flares (when it gets close) at the peaks of this ‘wave’ maneuver? Or is that a technique for different missiles?
Chaffs*.
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Not to criticize anyone at all costs’ sake, because I’m not of that kind goodness… but what should you do, for istance, if tasked to strike a site heavily defended by them, then?
But, speaking personally, I believe to understand the reasons behind Gundam’s question, and, going straight to the point, it’s better to give Dee-Jay the due credit for his frank answer - which almost directly confirmed what Molnibalage reported.
I on my little own can confirm that any other trick or “escamotage” I attempted in my virtual flying experience, I ridicously failed.
So, it should be a go in-hit-run away matter, all done as fast as possible, in conclusion.
More or less, as just as Dee-Jay wisely advised to avoid us to become one more statistic datum.Thanks a lot to you, Gundam, Molnibalage, Dee-Jay, Semler and Lorik (listen, you can’t be serious here, you smart guys ) for the interesting topic and discussion.
With best regards.
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@Jackal I can’t be serious about what?
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@LorikEolmin
Using the chaff, of course, but I intentionally said that in a joking way.
So do you really believe to have speed, space and time (most of all) enough to release them while keeping on dodging one or more probably more of those? If so, hats off to you, dear Lorik.
With my favourite birdie, I only have very high speed on my side, and that’s all - until fuel lasts, at least, because Tornados aren’t famous for going “cheap” on that matter, you know.With best regards.
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@Jackal Congrats on the effort but I only corrected Semler’s “flares” to “chaffs”. All the rest is a nice novel about what I didn’t write.
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@LorikEolmin
Thanks to you, but here is why I actually used the word “you” as a plural…
(English language unfortunately is not as refined in this as Italian instead, no offense intended to anyone.)With best regards.
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@Jackal as stated earlier, no evasive methods will work effectively against the SA-6.
So if you need to hit something under the cover of the SA-6 (besides the fact that the SA-6 is an army SAM), use the terrain cover and LOFT, but you can still be shot down. I had too many attempts to do it against the SA-11/17, but most of them were one-way tickets.…Or just bring an “iron hand” before the strike. Perhaps with a “workbench” as a quantitative factor. After all, SA-6 can only engage 1 target at a time. And it’s not a TELAR.
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@Foxtrot701 Wouldn’t this be done with a larger strike package group, including a SEAD or DEAD package in addition to the target strike package, and possibly a 2 or 4 ship escort to deter or deal with bandits? (or is that what you mean by “iron hand”?)
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@SemlerPDX “iron hand” (operation of USAF during the Vietnam war) is exactly a SEAD/DEAD package.
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@Foxtrot701 and @SemlerPDX
I wouldn’t be so assertive, in your shoes… I guess I’m going to share a test mission about this interesting topic one of these days, so I can show “why” I conclusively agree in full with that Dee-Jay’s cautious approach and statement, more dense than what it could seem (hint).
More. No offense intended to those brave RL pilots of that age (hats off, instead), but “Iron Hand” didn’t impress me when I studied it - too many strategic (political, I mean) limitations in it, according at least to those few elements I was allowed to read, of course. Too many have past, all have changed since then anyway, luckily for the best chance of SEAD/DEAD crews surviving sake. I would like to learn some about IAF SEAD/DEAD SA-6 tactics matured after the 1973 “Yom Kippur” war campaign - clearly impossible, it’s neither worth to explain here “why”.
Finally, I (personally speaking) wouldn’t mix different SAM batteries engaging tactics if they are coming from so distant ages: I made my own mind about those snakes’ nests.
An idea: @molnibalage, dear bro, would you kindly enlighten me about SA-6, SA-11 and SA-17 evolutive approach to the apparent same purpose, please?With best regards.