Unsolved Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP
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@LorikEolmin said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
It’s not a bug but a feature.
When you are above the Deaggregation distance of anything (Be it units, features, Aircrafts etc), it will disappear from 3D (Aggregate, right?), and there is mechanism in place so in order to have maximum realism but still keep sane bubble performance, objects will Deaggregate based on sensors/SPI pointing. In such a case a “Temporary bubble” is create around the position of the sensor and whatever is in that bubble will deaggregate. The size of the temporary bubble is pretty small.
Also, this should work perfectly in MP and also for AI jets. For example When AI is firing weapons on a target, even if the actual object being fired at is deaggregated, the weapon will create a temporary bubble around the target, until impact, and so “real units” are hit and not statistical 2D damage.
Anyway, temporary bubble can only be create around some maximum distance from the player, which is now set to 1M feet (~130NM IIRC).
Interesting question here. You can set a technological SPI such as a radar one, but not a Mk1 eyeball SPI. What your eyes see through the glass depends on what your avionics allow. Necessary downside, I guess.
Yes, it may look/feel weird at some situations, but don’t forget 1 thing: This is all about balance between gameplay and performance. If you allow eyeball to be a “sensor” and trigger deaggregation of stuff, then how would you do it? What is the FOV to judge, what is the distance? Because eyeball has a large FOV, much larger to reflect in even medium distance, way more area than the one of a temporary bubble. According to “eyeball logic” here, we should deaggregate every AB we are looking at a radium of 30-40NM and deaggregate every ground vehicle at 15-20NM. Think about the FLOT, bubble distance of units is 10NM, increasing that to 15 may become a huge difference in number of deaggregated units which will probably translate very fast to FPS decrease…
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@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@LorikEolmin said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
It’s not a bug but a feature.
When you are above the Deaggregation distance of anything (Be it units, features, Aircrafts etc), it will disappear from 3D (Aggregate, right?), and there is mechanism in place so in order to have maximum realism but still keep sane bubble performance, objects will Deaggregate based on sensors/SPI pointing. In such a case a “Temporary bubble” is create around the position of the sensor and whatever is in that bubble will deaggregate. The size of the temporary bubble is pretty small.
Also, this should work perfectly in MP and also for AI jets. For example When AI is firing weapons on a target, even if the actual object being fired at is deaggregated, the weapon will create a temporary bubble around the target, until impact, and so “real units” are hit and not statistical 2D damage.
Anyway, temporary bubble can only be create around some maximum distance from the player, which is now set to 1M feet (~130NM IIRC).
Interesting question here. You can set a technological SPI such as a radar one, but not a Mk1 eyeball SPI. What your eyes see through the glass depends on what your avionics allow. Necessary downside, I guess.
Yes, it may look/feel weird at some situations, but don’t forget 1 thing: This is all about balance between gameplay and performance. If you allow eyeball to be a “sensor” and trigger deaggregation of stuff, then how would you do it? What is the FOV to judge, what is the distance? Because eyeball has a large FOV, much larger to reflect in even medium distance, way more area than the one of a temporary bubble. According to “eyeball logic” here, we should deaggregate every AB we are looking at a radium of 30-40NM and deaggregate every ground vehicle at 15-20NM. Think about the FLOT, bubble distance of units is 10NM, increasing that to 15 may become a huge difference in number of deaggregated units which will probably translate very fast to FPS decrease…
Likely it would have diminishing returns to increase it or make it an option but it would be something cool to test on tody’s high end machines. Right now my framerates are ridiculously high, but I bet when 4.38 drops that will change a bit…
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@Croa said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk Interesting, and it makes sense. But I’m surprised at the distance that this is occuring in FO, cause it can make your targets disappear in critical moments. Maybe the lack of targeting pod in this event make objects to vanish even more quickly, and that explains why I didn’t notice it before.
It’s all depend on bubble settings…
Usually:
Combat AC - 50NM
Less important AC - 30NM
GUs - 10NM
Choppers - 10NM
ABs - Not sure, I’d estimate they should be ~20-25NM at least
Other features - Not sure, I think depend on which exactly
SAMs - According to missiles range IIRC
Task force (Maybe all ships but not sure) - Always deaggregated IIRCBubble distances can be changed, but not suggested.
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@Icer said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@LorikEolmin said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
It’s not a bug but a feature.
When you are above the Deaggregation distance of anything (Be it units, features, Aircrafts etc), it will disappear from 3D (Aggregate, right?), and there is mechanism in place so in order to have maximum realism but still keep sane bubble performance, objects will Deaggregate based on sensors/SPI pointing. In such a case a “Temporary bubble” is create around the position of the sensor and whatever is in that bubble will deaggregate. The size of the temporary bubble is pretty small.
Also, this should work perfectly in MP and also for AI jets. For example When AI is firing weapons on a target, even if the actual object being fired at is deaggregated, the weapon will create a temporary bubble around the target, until impact, and so “real units” are hit and not statistical 2D damage.
Anyway, temporary bubble can only be create around some maximum distance from the player, which is now set to 1M feet (~130NM IIRC).
Interesting question here. You can set a technological SPI such as a radar one, but not a Mk1 eyeball SPI. What your eyes see through the glass depends on what your avionics allow. Necessary downside, I guess.
Yes, it may look/feel weird at some situations, but don’t forget 1 thing: This is all about balance between gameplay and performance. If you allow eyeball to be a “sensor” and trigger deaggregation of stuff, then how would you do it? What is the FOV to judge, what is the distance? Because eyeball has a large FOV, much larger to reflect in even medium distance, way more area than the one of a temporary bubble. According to “eyeball logic” here, we should deaggregate every AB we are looking at a radium of 30-40NM and deaggregate every ground vehicle at 15-20NM. Think about the FLOT, bubble distance of units is 10NM, increasing that to 15 may become a huge difference in number of deaggregated units which will probably translate very fast to FPS decrease…
Likely it would have diminishing returns to increase it or make it an option but it would be something cool to test on tody’s high end machines. Right now my framerates are ridiculously high, but I bet when 4.38 drops that will change a bit…
Even assuming we can take 13900K and 4090 as the common system (Say in the coming years), I assure you that even with very strong HW, a PC will still come to its kness if bubble ranges are increased irresponsibly. Processing of units, rendering of objects, all that take time, and when talking about ranges, number of deaggregated objects will grow in an exponential fashion relative to a linear growth of the bubble’s range.
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@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@LorikEolmin said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
It’s not a bug but a feature.
When you are above the Deaggregation distance of anything (Be it units, features, Aircrafts etc), it will disappear from 3D (Aggregate, right?), and there is mechanism in place so in order to have maximum realism but still keep sane bubble performance, objects will Deaggregate based on sensors/SPI pointing. In such a case a “Temporary bubble” is create around the position of the sensor and whatever is in that bubble will deaggregate. The size of the temporary bubble is pretty small.
Also, this should work perfectly in MP and also for AI jets. For example When AI is firing weapons on a target, even if the actual object being fired at is deaggregated, the weapon will create a temporary bubble around the target, until impact, and so “real units” are hit and not statistical 2D damage.
Anyway, temporary bubble can only be create around some maximum distance from the player, which is now set to 1M feet (~130NM IIRC).
Interesting question here. You can set a technological SPI such as a radar one, but not a Mk1 eyeball SPI. What your eyes see through the glass depends on what your avionics allow. Necessary downside, I guess.
Yes, it may look/feel weird at some situations, but don’t forget 1 thing: This is all about balance between gameplay and performance. If you allow eyeball to be a “sensor” and trigger deaggregation of stuff, then how would you do it? What is the FOV to judge, what is the distance? Because eyeball has a large FOV, much larger to reflect in even medium distance, way more area than the one of a temporary bubble. According to “eyeball logic” here, we should deaggregate every AB we are looking at a radium of 30-40NM and deaggregate every ground vehicle at 15-20NM. Think about the FLOT, bubble distance of units is 10NM, increasing that to 15 may become a huge difference in number of deaggregated units which will probably translate very fast to FPS decrease…
I absolutely agree, hence the “necessary downside” conclusion.
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I guess this is a non-issue then. At least we know a little bit better how it is working behind the curtain. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
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I would suggest that it is not unreasonable to be able to see the airbase from afar, as in the CCRP pictures. It is a bit strange to not be able to see it, because a MP wingman slightly closer to it would see it clear as day.
Perhaps in the future deaggregation could be done more in stages, like deagg the runways when seen from afar, but do not deagg every support ground vehicle on the tarmac. Like, you can see the chinese wall from space, but not someone walking on it.
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“Like, you can see the chinese wall from space…”
Urban myth…
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@Aragorn Sure, but you get the concept
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@Aragorn said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
“Like, you can see the chinese wall from space…”
Urban myth…
You can from the ISS, if CCRP enabled and the wall as SPI.
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@I-Hawk for MP, how does bubble size affect perf … is it bottlenecked by the slowest PC in the flight – or the speed of the server.
does network bandwidth go up exponentially, with bubble radius?
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@airtex2019 said in Units disappear when switching from CCRP to CCIP:
@I-Hawk for MP, how does bubble size affect perf … is it bottlenecked by the slowest PC in the flight – or the speed of the server.
does network bandwidth go up exponentially, with bubble radius?
I’m no expert to MP and campaign but AFAIK everything is managed by the server, campaign-logic wise.