RWR List Symbols?
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Try page 40 in the BMS Threat Guide PDF. Looks like it is an SA-5 guided by a Bar Lock radar
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@Valky said in RWR List Symbols?:
Try page 40 in the BMS Threat Guide PDF. Looks like it is an SA-5 guided by a Bar Lock radar
I see on page 41, in the “BMS-Threat-Guide.pdf”, that an SA-5 can be represented by a “B” or a “2”, though I haven’t seen an SA-5 and an SA-2 together yet, just to see which one the RWR would represent with a 2, it’s a test that I should do.
But back to “B”, it’s not an SA-5, I create a TE mission, with only an SA-10 alone, the same thing happens with two other TE missions I created, one mission with only one SA-2, and other mission with only an SA-3.
Don’t know what mean the “B” on this situation.Some tips needed here to help, pls. Thank’s.
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@cchaparro Even if you create a TE Mission and do not place an SA-10 Battalion there will still be active SA-2, SA-3, SA-5s on the blank default mission.
As this screen shot shows there are 2 SA-5’s and 1 x SA-2 near Hwangju AB.
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@cchaparro static radars can also radiate.
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@Kavelenko said in RWR List Symbols?:
@cchaparro Even if you create a TE Mission and do not place an SA-10 Battalion there will still be active SA-2, SA-3, SA-5s on the blank default mission.
I 99,99% doubt that. On the theater (and therefore in the blank TE) you have SA sites, but they are empty.
So, to me, definitely something to understand about the question raised.
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@CheckPoint If you doubt it then try it. I was shot down by one so I know first hand.
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@Kavelenko said in RWR List Symbols?:
@CheckPoint If you doubt it then try it. I was shot down by one so I know first hand.
I will definitely.
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@Kavelenko said in RWR List Symbols?:
@cchaparro Even if you create a TE Mission and do not place an SA-10 Battalion there will still be active SA-2, SA-3, SA-5s on the blank default mission.
As this screen shot shows there are 2 SA-5’s and 1 x SA-2 near Hwangju AB.
Negative, these are just placeholders, so to speak. No units on them on this screenshot. Checkpoint is right. Share the file you’re talking about, if you can reproduce this situation.
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@airtex2019 said in RWR List Symbols?:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24372/barlock-radar-but-where-why
@Dee-Jay said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
… Bar Lock is the legacy EWR in Falcon4 DB, and I couldn’t change it simply because I am lacking a Tall King (or Back Net) 3D model. So we keep the existing one, the only one we have.
As simple as that.So I understand EWR radars are modeled as Barlock. Right ?
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@CheckPoint said in RWR List Symbols?:
@airtex2019 said in RWR List Symbols?:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24372/barlock-radar-but-where-why
@Dee-Jay said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
… Bar Lock is the legacy EWR in Falcon4 DB, and I couldn’t change it simply because I am lacking a Tall King (or Back Net) 3D model. So we keep the existing one, the only one we have.
As simple as that.So I understand EWR radars are modeled as Barlock. Right ?
Yes. You’ll spot one in 3D as a radar on an airbase for instance.
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Symbology depends on block / RWR model.
Which one are we talking about here ?Also, if the “B” has the inverted V on top = airborne bomber.
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@Foxtrot701 said in RWR List Symbols?:
@cchaparro static radars can also radiate.
I test deleting the SA-10 battalion, following the “B” on RWR, firing a HARM against this “B” signal, and impact on this same radar you show on this image. I see that is the P-37 how you said, not an SA-5. Strange that both are emiting the same signal.
On this TE mission I created, with the target SA-10 on the Taetan Airbase, there isn’t other SAM’s around, not SA-2, SA-3, SA-5. Was this P-37 static radar the issue.
I see another “B” and follow it until Mirim Airbase, and was the same P-37 static radar, but this time I see, with the HAD HARM system, an SA-5 signal, I fired on it, and I see that isn’t an SA-5, is another static radar on the Airbase, same that the other on Taetan Airbase. Then, I get a diamond “B” on the RWR and a “SA-5” on the HAD MFD HARM system (HARM Attack Display), but not a real SA-5 and not a threat “B” diamond on RWR.
And I read the other post with this issue reported, where they said things like:
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Just small note, the SA-5B (S-200 Vega) never had the P-37 (Bar Lock) radar.
Different S-200 variants and their radars.
"and how people said on this post:
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Bar Lock is the legacy EWR in Falcon4 DB, and I couldn’t change it simply because I am lacking a Tall King (or Back Net) 3D model. So we keep the existing one, the only one we have.
As simple as that.
"I understand that this is the issue, and that can’t be changed for now, but the main purpose of comment this issue, is to know what’s a threat and what’s not in RWR, and if I see a “B” mark inside a diamond, is a threat that I see isn’t really a threat, and this is a bad thing, I’m in the correct way or missing something?.
Because sometimes can be a real SA-5 and a real threat and sometimes this issue and not a threat, only a static radar. How can I know when is a threat and when is not?, this is the point with this post.
On page 66 from “BMS-Threat-Guide.pdf”, the diamond indicates Highest priority, and at least I find the “B” RWR Symbol, that is a Bar Lock (SA-5) signal.
I hope that this can be solved some way if needed, or please give me some tips to know when “B” alert on diamond is a real threat or when isn’t, to learn more about how to engage A-G missions. If a “B” is not a threat, I can bomb an Airbase, but is the “B” is really a threat, I must back to get other weapons to deal against an SA-5 if it’s an SA-5.
All tips here are very useful, I want to thank everyone who contributes knowledge to learn.
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@cchaparro the real SA-5 never moves, it always stays in its place and is always displayed on the map. Knowing the position, you can’t go wrong, especially if you use PPT. Also, Bar Lock is just an early warning radar, there are still too many EW radars, some of them are even repairable. The real problem comes when you see the “5” (Square Pair) on the RWR.
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@cchaparro said in RWR List Symbols?:
I understand that this is the issue, and that can’t be changed for now, but the main purpose of comment this issue, is to know what’s a threat and what’s not in RWR, and if I see a “B” mark inside a diamond, is a threat that I see isn’t really a threat, and this is a bad thing, I’m in the correct way or missing something?.
Because sometimes can be a real SA-5 and a real threat and sometimes this issue and not a threat, only a static radar. How can I know when is a threat and when is not?, this is the point with this post.
On page 66 from “BMS-Threat-Guide.pdf”, the diamond indicates Highest priority, and at least I find the “B” RWR Symbol, that is a Bar Lock (SA-5) signal.
I hope that this can be solved some way if needed, or please give me some tips to know when “B” alert on diamond is a real threat or when isn’t, to learn more about how to engage A-G missions. If a “B” is not a threat, I can bomb an Airbase, but is the “B” is really a threat, I must back to get other weapons to deal against an SA-5 if it’s an SA-5.
All tips here are very useful, I want to thank everyone who contributes knowledge to learn.
If you’re spotted by an enemy radar, it’s a threat. Might it be an EWR or a Bar Lock, it can mean trouble.
Diamond : If you are in “diamond float”, then the diamond is on the main threat detected by the RWR. It can be an EWR if it is the only thing pinging your plane, or even a friendly radar. The diamond has nothing to do with if the radar can actually guide something on you. If a firing radar locks you, then the diamond will move to that. -
@cchaparro every time you get within a 30 nm radius of a static EW radar, a pair or more of enemy MiGs will be scrambled to intercept from the nearest airbase. However, the SAM EW radar (which is not part of the static objective) only gives a picture of what is happening around his site, instead of constantly turning on the fire control radar. So no IADS in BMS for air defense, for example, one SAM site does not take into account what the second one knows.
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@Foxtrot701 said in RWR List Symbols?:
@cchaparro the real SA-5 never moves, it always stays in its place and is always displayed on the map. Knowing the position, you can’t go wrong, especially if you use PPT. Also, Bar Lock is just an early warning radar, there are still too many EW radars, some of them are even repairable. The real problem comes when you see the “5” (Square Pair) on the RWR.
Affirmative. I can use PPT against SA-2, SA-3, SA-5, I test them and can engage marking the targets. But with the SA-10, static on the same enemy Airbase, the problem is that I can’t see the unit, and can’t use PPT. I read that is a mobile SAM, but I test and they are not moving, are static on the Airbase, for this reason I ask why this happens with SA-10’s, some “ghost mode”?. I only ask, because it’s some weird for me.
I understand about EWR-adars, but If I see a “B” with complete diamond on the RWR, perhaps it’s only a static radar from the Airbase by default, not as part of a battalion, and I can be relaxed, but perhaps can be a serious threat, like this real SA-5, and how you said, I must pay attention when I see this 5 on the RWR.
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@cchaparro an interesting fact is that you can’t really know when an SA-5 is tracking you or launching a missile at you, you will only see the symbol “5” (as far as I know, in Operation Prairie Fire in 1986, the F-14 turned away from the threat when the AWACS told them that they were under fire), and in the BMS it works like many other air defense systems (the behavior is more like SA-2 or 3 than somehow close to SA-10).
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@Foxtrot701 said in RWR List Symbols?:
@cchaparro every time you get within a 30 nm radius of a static EW radar, a pair or more of enemy MiGs will be scrambled to intercept from the nearest airbase. However, the SAM EW radar (which is not part of the static objective) only gives a picture of what is happening around his site, instead of constantly turning on the fire control radar. So no IADS in BMS for air defense, for example, one SAM site does not take into account what the second one knows.
Very interesting tip, very interesting things are learned by consulting all of you, you are living tutorials. Thank’s for this very nice information about enemy scramble’s. I’m on a TE mission, but the real objective is to play campaigns and be prepared for what happens. Really thankful for this important tip.
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@Flow32 said in RWR List Symbols?:
@cchaparro said in RWR List Symbols?:
I understand that this is the issue, and that can’t be changed for now, but the main purpose of comment this issue, is to know what’s a threat and what’s not in RWR, and if I see a “B” mark inside a diamond, is a threat that I see isn’t really a threat, and this is a bad thing, I’m in the correct way or missing something?.
Because sometimes can be a real SA-5 and a real threat and sometimes this issue and not a threat, only a static radar. How can I know when is a threat and when is not?, this is the point with this post.
On page 66 from “BMS-Threat-Guide.pdf”, the diamond indicates Highest priority, and at least I find the “B” RWR Symbol, that is a Bar Lock (SA-5) signal.
I hope that this can be solved some way if needed, or please give me some tips to know when “B” alert on diamond is a real threat or when isn’t, to learn more about how to engage A-G missions. If a “B” is not a threat, I can bomb an Airbase, but is the “B” is really a threat, I must back to get other weapons to deal against an SA-5 if it’s an SA-5.
All tips here are very useful, I want to thank everyone who contributes knowledge to learn.
If you’re spotted by an enemy radar, it’s a threat. Might it be an EWR or a Bar Lock, it can mean trouble.
Diamond : If you are in “diamond float”, then the diamond is on the main threat detected by the RWR. It can be an EWR if it is the only thing pinging your plane, or even a friendly radar. The diamond has nothing to do with if the radar can actually guide something on you. If a firing radar locks you, then the diamond will move to that.Affirmative, it’s clear when is a threat and when not.
It’s only that when we are testing to learn to know the enemy, there are things that become strange until we can know and anyone can adapts to them.
It’s just that it seems strange to me to see a diamond warning sign in the RWR, and not really be an alert when it’s a default static radar from the scenario, not from a battalion of SAM’s. It’s something confusing. but i can adapt to it with practice.