[Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool
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@Tyrant thanks for the offer. I’m familiar with VMT code already. Even I don’t have Clojure in my stack as a professional java dev, limiting factor currently would be more time and availability
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@oakdesign Roger that. Completely understand, of course. Offer remains if you wind up deciding to work on it.
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Good Day, All.
After putting T2’s bms.cfg entries in, I had 2 successful tests. First was a bolter, the second was a bolter then OK 4. (Progress, at least ). The BOT will definitely help me be less sloppy at the Ramp.
My procedure was-1) Did the usual Comm procedures on the approaches. I 've incorporated the "AVTR on " command into my VoiceAttack Ball Call. That gives a nice short tape, plus I won’t forget to tape as I generally stop the mission AVTR when I fence out
2) On deck, before I leave 3D, turn the AVTR off
3) Go into TacView, open the file and “save as " Tacview Text Telemetry Data”.
4)delete the original TAPE XXXX
5) Minimize TacView , but leave it running
6) Load .txt file into the BOT -
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@drtbkj
Good job, Joe! Glad to see it’s working for you.@oakdesign , please let me know if there is anything I can do to help should you decide to work a conversion to use another format to keep LSOBot alive. I would really hate to see this valuable tool of @Tyrant 's be lost to “modernization.”
@Seifer , pls see discussion above, and if possible please keep .acmi Tacview format viable. I am certain there are F-18 converts coming over from “the Sim that shall not be named” who would really like to have the graded carrier landing capability LSOBot provides to BMS, something that was available from whence they came.
@Tyrant , thank you for creating this outstanding tool. As Joe said, it really helps to improve our flying skills, especially in close. LSOBot makes practice traps one of my favorite things to do in BMS!
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@oakdesign said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
I’m pretty sure with the future implementation of Tacview Realtime telemetry the recording format will change significantly
nothing will change there apart from some additional info here and there
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@Tomcattwo said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
keep .acmi Tacview format viable
Sorry, i dont understand the question
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TLDR: If possible, please preserve the ability of BMS to generate .vhs AVTR data in future upgrades to BMS.
Longer explanation:
Currently, LSOBot requires files in .txt.acmi Text Telemetey Data format. This format is dependent on BMS AVTR output in .vhs format. Currently Tacview is used to convert BMS .vhs AVTR output to .txt.acmi that is readable by LSOBot. I should have more properly been asking if .vhs format can remain available in future updates to BMS.I also realize that this concern may not really have to do as much with BMS as with Tacview, over which we have no control. That is, if Tacview is changed such that .vhs files are no longer able to be loaded/viewed, then we will be out of luck, whether or not BMS can produce .vhs AVTR output, unless there is an alternate way to convert .vhs or .zip.acmi to .txt.acmi. Currently, BMS .zip.acmi files that are extracted to produce .txt.acmi Text Telemetry Data do not work properly in LSOBot. This aspect is what I think @oakdesign was considering taking a look at (to see if maybe LSOBot code could be altered to properly read .txt.acmi as extracted from BMS .zip.acmi.)
My apologies for not being more clear. Hope this helps.
Regards, -
@Tumbler31 @Tomcattwo is asking for the original .vhs format to continue to be an option so we can use LSOBot. I’m not sure if there is really any other advantages the days other than that. Sorry T2 if I’m missing something.
Personally, I’d prefer to have whatever the issue is with LSOBot not reading BMS’s current version of .txt.acmi fixed so I can stay with the new format .txt.acmi that even @Tyrant was trying to transition to almost 5 years ago to keep the new streamlined TacView support. But that’s me
I don’t know it this is a real time telemetry recording issue which I believe was U3 or just the txt.acmi defaut AVTR format transition which I think was 4.37U1. I think I’ve been trying LSOBot before the U3 without success.
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@Snake122 @Tomcattwo Please excuse the (probably) basic questions. But, just so I understand…
- The Bot only “sees” the .vhs format, at least for now ?
- If that is the case then we use , and in essence we only need ,TacView to convert to that? I’m speaking just in terms of the Bot. Nobody denies Tacview’s overall value.
- If 2 is true, then can some other program be used covert it? I’ve looked at Cloud Concert and the NCH App (which I have used before). They don’t seem to list .vhs as a format they can convert. If we can convert whatever file format (.txt or .zip) to .vhs, would we be in business?
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@drtbkj said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
@Snake122 @Tomcattwo Please excuse the (probably) basic questions. But, just so I understand…
- The Bot only “sees” the .vhs format, at least for now ?
No. The LSOBot can only read Text Telemetry Data files, in the format YourFileName.txt.acmi that have been converted (using Tacview) from .vhs format.
BMS will produce AVTR files in either one of two formats:
TapeXXX.vhs ( the older file format) or
TapeXXX.zip.acmi (the newer file format)If you try to convert TapeXXX.zip.acmi to TapeXXX.txt.acmi, either by extracting from .zip.acmi or by using Tacview, LSOBot will not be able to read the file properly. This is what you were seeing in your first couple of tests when LSOBot told you it could not find any valid passes.
So the only way I am aware of to get readable files for LSOBot is to have BMS provide AVTR in the older TapeXXX.vhs format, open that in Tacview, and save as YourFileName.txt.acmi When done this way, LSOBot can properly read the file.
The User.cfg entries I provided told BMS to provide AVTR output in the older .vhs format. When you converted those using Tacview to .txt.acmi, LSOBot gave you valid passes and grades.
By the way, if I am screwed up here, @oakdesign or @Tyrant or @Snake122 please let me know…
- If that is the case then we use , and in essence we only need ,TacView to convert to that? I’m speaking just in terms of the Bot. Nobody denies Tacview’s overall value.
Not exactly. From what I gather, we need BMS to provide .vhs so we can properly convert to .txt.acmi using Tacview so LSOBot can read the files properly.
Another solution (one which I gather @oakdesign was contemplating) would be to recode LSOBot to be able to read the necessary data using another format (either .zip.acmi or .txt.acmi extracted from a .zip.acmi AVTR output). That would not be an easy thing to do.
- If 2 is true, then can some other program be used covert it? I’ve looked at Cloud Concert and the NCH App (which I have used before). They don’t seem to list .vhs as a format they can convert. If we can convert whatever file format (.txt or .zip) to .vhs, would we be in business?
Per the above, no matter what program is used to convert BMS AVTR file output, LSOBot currently only accepts as valid a .txt.acmi converted from a .vhs format.
Hope that helps. Until LSOBot is reprogrammed to accept some other format, it seems that it will only function properly using a .vhs to .txt.acmi converted file.
Regards,
TC2 -
@drtbkj @Tomcattwo nailed the answer!
I would add that there has been some talk going to all .zip.acmi format to use TacView exclusively and BMS leaving the antiquated ACMI viewer and its .vhs format since 4.37 (not even U1) hence why they added the config line edit we have to use to turn back on the .vhs. LSOBot in its current state will only work as long as the .vhs is an option. Either LSOBot would have to be updated to the new BMS .zip.acmi or whatever is being removed by BMS’s file added back in so that LSOBot recognizes passes. Updating LSOBot could potentially allow .zip.acmi support so no TacView conversion necessary.
The .vhs format is a Falcon 4.0 only file extension and only a handful of converters like TacView and flt2vhs exist as well. TacView is definitely the modern standard as @Tyrant was trying to embrace anyway when he made LSOBot. The .vhs format can also be quite large and can take a lot of time to compile on 3d world exit. If you ever had a really long hang after exiting a campaign mission that you recorded pre 4.37, that’s why. Also Falcon 4.0 and most versions of BMS have a file size limit to .vhs as well. There are many reasons as I and I think BMS sees it to leave it behind.
Honestly, I like the post 4.37 ways of doing things that I will only enable .vhs for grading passes since I like to record full missions and have recording turned on by default.
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@Tomcattwo said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
TLDR: If possible, please preserve the ability of BMS to generate .vhs AVTR data in future upgrades to BMS.
No worries, nothing changed there
@Tomcattwo said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
If you try to convert TapeXXX.zip.acmi to TapeXXX.txt.acmi, either by extracting from .zip.acmi or by using Tacview, LSOBot will not be able to read the file properly.
That’s weird, some serialisation issue?
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@Tumbler31 said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
That’s weird, some serialisation issue?
That’s the route I will follow along first. Structural a vhs converted to acmi.txt through Tacview shouldn’t be any different from the compressds acmi.txt we get out of BMS right now.
I know that there are certain acmi parameters not written/exported in the current implementation in BMS but those are not releated to Telemetry data, more unit data such als callsign, pilotname writen to a single parameter instead of the explicit ones -
@oakdesign
LSOBot does read/use Pilot Name and Carrier Name…
R/TC2 -
@Tumbler31 said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
@Tomcattwo said in [Release] LSOBot - A Carrier Landing Grading Tool:
TLDR: If possible, please preserve the ability of BMS to generate .vhs AVTR data in future upgrades to BMS.
No worries, nothing changed there
Thank you, Tumbler31! Greatly appreciated!
R/TC2 -
True story: LSOBot is why I quit my 17 year career in consulting.
Long version: I had my own software consulting business for twelve years. I worked another seven at a friend’s company doing similar work. I worked for companies of every size, from one person up to hundreds of thousands. I think I’ve worked for over half the Fortune 50 at this point.
Most consulting gigs (or at least, most of mine) kind of sucked. A few were good, but generally, the companies were disorganized disasters doing work that was as often as not cancelled before it came to fruition. Or we were out the door before the project was over. I always did my best to help, but over time I developed “Tyrant’s First Law of Consulting”, which is, “You can’t MAKE people succeed.” (The other two being “Projects always end,” and “You don’t work for the client” but those are stories for another time.)
That the gigs tended to suck is not terribly surprising. First, there’s a lot of this kind of thing out there. Second, the people that hired us were generally not doing great, because, well, they needed our help.
Anyway, I learned a lot and don’t regret it. But after almost two decades, I realized I was not particularly enjoying it. I had started flying with the 1st VFW somewhere in there, and made the acquaintance of Flounder and Shady, who were enthusiastic about the Hornet in BMS. They had come across some virtual LSO program, knew I was a software guy, and wanted to know if I could do something similar. I took on the project.
Well, it turned out it was the most fun I’d had writing software in a long time. Making something directly for awesome people who cared about it and wanted to see it succeed was an experience I realized I had been lacking. It didn’t hurt that it was also a somewhat challenging problem that, surprisingly, yielded itself to the collection of hacks I came up with to make it work. It was easily the most enjoyable and rewarding work I’d done in a long time.
Not long after writing it, I realized that I was missing having a job that was about actually making stuff. So I left consulting for product work, and I’ve been doing it ever since.
Anyway, LSOBot will always have a warm place in my heart as a result. I super enjoy seeing that people here still find value in it and care about it.
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@Tyrant
Great story, Tyrant, and so true…you CAN’T make people succeed. You can offer to help and if they take your offer, and really listen to what you have to say, great! If not, “shake the dust off your feet” and move on.
The one thing you know about the BMS community is folks are here because they want to be and are truly devoted to this simulation. Some of the most enjoyable work I’ve ever done was here also, doing voice cloning to give most of the additional theater airbases their real names to get ATC as close as we can get it to “as real as it gets”. It’s a labor of love, as I am sure LSOBot was for you. Well done, and thank you for your work on LSOBot!
With respect,
TC2
(VoiceClone) -
@Tyrant -
Great story. Reminds me of me back when I was riding high with RADSoftware.org, creating desktop software for the fun of it, and sitting back amazed when people would pay me a lot of money for it. That was a long time ago. Now I’m just coasting with Excel-based personal productivity worksheets. Still fun, though.
Also, just a reminder of a post I made to you about 8 years ago: Most people land on a tarmac, not a carrier, and would benefit just as much from feedback of such a LSO. Still true today, 8 years later. Jus’ sayin’…
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@Tyrant Thanks for the contribution! Your hornet has gotten some love this u3 release, with its first iteration of custom avionics instead of the frakenviper mfds , hope you get the chance to fly someday
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@Tyrant Hopefully, it’s clear to you that we value your work. Team Bot!