How to induce Deep Stall
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Hi sanpats
Entering a deep stall is not hard, you just got to know the trick:
1. Set your MPO switch to OVERRIDE.
2. Pitch up to 60 degrees (gun-cross, not FPM)
3. Throttle to idle
4. Hold 60 degrees to stall
5. As you stall try keep your nose at 60 degrees while repeatedly mashing your rudder full left then full right deflection. Hold each deflection for about a second before reversingWith any luck your plane pitch forward to a few degrees down, 90-100kts indicated, no roll response and very little pitch response. Altitude will be spinning down fast. This is your deep stall. Now rock your plane out of the stall and when you have control back remember turn off the MPO.
Hope that helps
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why MPO?
MPO only remove the negative G limiter. -
Just try to over tax two limiters at once. Easy really.
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@.boomer.:
Not sure why nobody has mentioned FLCS limiters, yet. AFAIK, the true method to depart from normal flight (in the F-16) is to attack TWO limiters at the same time: (which is described above when you go max AoA/pitch, and then roll/yaw).
firstly, HARTS maneuvers consist of going to close to max AoA and then rolling. secondly, I would expect that someone asking how to deep stall the aircraft already has an in depth understanding of the limiters and FLCS system.
additionally, you might note that above 25 degrees AoA, the Yaw limiter literally ignores pilot input…. you can go max AoA all you like, but stamping on the pedals wont do anything while above 25 degrees AoA.
If those wanting to experience the deep stall characteristic first hand have NOT got a good understanding of the forces involved, I heavily recommend having a read of the articles on this website, regarding the FLCS and how the limiters operate.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?149-Flight-Model-%28FM%29-Developer-s-Notes-Part-4
this concept of “over taxing” or “wearing on” limiters is an oversimplification, I fear… its all to do with the momentum and forces applied. if you can get the momentum to put the plane into the 60 degree alpha sweet spot, it will deep stall. if you have too much momentum and go right past it, you will not.
Hi sanpats
Entering a deep stall is not hard, you just got to know the trick:
1. Set your MPO switch to OVERRIDE.
2. Pitch up to 60 degrees (gun-cross, not FPM)
3. Throttle to idle
4. Hold 60 degrees to stall
5. As you stall try keep your nose at 60 degrees while repeatedly mashing your rudder full left then full right deflection. Hold each deflection for about a second before reversingWith any luck your plane pitch forward to a few degrees down, 90-100kts indicated, no roll response and very little pitch response. Altitude will be spinning down fast. This is your deep stall. Now rock your plane out of the stall and when you have control back remember turn off the MPO.
Hope that helps
you know, its a very heavy switch to throw, the MPO. its spring held - you have to hold it in the override position. its a very strong spring…
once again, you wont stall by holding 60 degrees… the FLCS will limit your pitch authority and nose down… and by this point you should have no rudder authority.
any time the nose drops, its generally the FLCS doing it for you, not the result of interrupted airflow over the wings.
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The way to get the AFM into a deep stall is to work around the FLCS.
First you need just enough kcas that full up elevator create pitch inertia that exceeds the FLCS’s AoA25º/1g limiter. Too little kcas, the a/c will not get to >AoA25 º to much kcas and FLCS limiter will have the authority to prevent AoA>25º.
Then you need a maneuver that bleed the kcas <150kcas while AoA>25º. At this speed the FLCS will not have the authority to push the nose down to limit AoA back to 25º. This is were the roll with rudder is used.
Now you got the right kcas<150 and AoA>25º, the a/c wing need to be level and the nose needs to be near or just above the horizon.
The thing that really makes it hard, during the maneuver stick authority lessen and at the end of the maneuver, all controls are lost. So it’s a series of events that puts the AFM into a deep stall. You can’t just fly into one……at least I can’t (update3).
It’s not worth the wear and tear on the hotas to practice deep stall, imo. I only been in a two deep stalls during normal game play and both times it was below 15k and I had to eject both times. But, if you got nothing better to do…
Start with this:
(a) at190knt pitch up to 40º and unload a/c
(b) bank 45º
Pull hard on stick to create pitch inertia and
(d) full roll and rudder to reduce speed < 150knt
(e) Idle engine at some point maybewatch AoA indicator and airspeed,
if that didn’t work, here are a few modifications :
If speed is above <140knt, adjust (a) increase the 40º entry and/or lessen the 190knt.
If the maneuver did not end with level wings, adjust (b) start on a 25º or 60º bank
If AoA did not exceed AoA27º adjust (a) increase entry speed only.
If the FLCS returned to AoA25º decrease speed
If all nose is not near the horizon adjust (a) adjust 40º entryTHE VERIBLE ARE ENDLESS.
and if you want to do it with the MPO toggled…go for it…it works when AoA>28º, disables AoA/g limiter and Yaw SAS, iirc.About departure of flight.
There is a differance between departure of flight and deep stall. Irl, the FLCS will recover from departure of flight when the pilot releases the stick. However, after the FLCS stabilizes the departure of flight the a/c could end up in a deep stall if kcas drop below 150s, wings are level and the nose is near the horizon. -
a deep stall is just a departure (being a stall in “departure” conditions… typically high power - low airspeed) that stabilises at 60 degrees angle of attack… right where there is no control authority.
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A deep stall ends in low kcas (<150) at a stable level atitude. The FLCS does not have control authority. The pilot does with MPO. Btw the AoA indicator only goes to 32º.
Departure of flight ends with the a/c tumbling out of control. The pilot should try to recover, he release the stick and let the FLCS do it. Then it possilbe that a/c recovers into deep stall and the pilot must recover from that. -
This post is deleted! -
A deep stall ends in low kcas (<150) at a stable level atitude. The FLCS does not have control authority. The pilot does with MPO. Btw the AoA indicator only goes to 32º.
Departure of flight ends with the a/c tumbling out of control. The pilot should try to recover, he release the stick and let the FLCS do it. Then it possilbe that a/c recovers into deep stall and the pilot must recover from that.technically to be a departure it also needs to be low airspeed. otherwise it is some other variety of stall.
the indicator might only go to 32 degrees, but the aircraft can and does go to 60+. I have on 2 separate occasions managed 180 degrees AoA for a few seconds…
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technically to be a departure it also needs to be low airspeed. otherwise it is some other variety of stall.
nope,
attack TWO limiters at the same time
, asymmetrical loads, high altitude can cause a lost in vertical stab and rudder authority causing the a/c to spin out of control irl. A snap roll is a departure of flight. I’m talking about two different things.
the indicator might only go to 32 degrees, but the aircraft can and does go to 60+. I have on 2 separate occasions managed 180 degrees AoA for a few seconds…
call it what you want.
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that is an accelerated stall, not a departure stall.
a snap roll is also an accelerated stall.
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Are you kidding me ……
Deep stall is so easy… Job follow Coco’s post.
Or ill show you how tonight.
We can do inverted or we can spin while we flutter.
Latter…
PS: or is just my natural inability to get there.
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are you using the AFM?
Some of these deep stall instruction did work in F4AF. -
For tour information the current AFM is just just a bit more resistant to roll departure than the real .
This is due to a number I slightly changed in the FLCS a Loooong time ago and that I completely forgot to change back before release
This will be fixed in next BMS version (with a lot of other FM goodies )
But be reassured, this is very very subtitle difference
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Will we finally be able to recreate this:
I tried it with 3 missiles on one wingtip and 0 on the other, and still couldn’t get a departure like that
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Will we finally be able to recreate this:
I tried it with 3 missiles on one wingtip and 0 on the other, and still couldn’t get a departure like that
Well this is not difficult as i already succeeded in doing it -as many others - secret is in speed and roll….
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Please tell me the secret, because I have tried many times at 30,000 feet, M0.9~0.95 and never got a departure.
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That case in that video was one of the first things i tried after BMS came out. Works. M0.9 is too fast for 30kf, try it slower.
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In the video he says it is over 35k that the test was done, rolled 90 right and aft stick, is that what you try in bms too?
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@A.S:
That case in that video was one of the first things i tried after BMS came out. Works. M0.9 is too fast for 30kf, try it slower.
Interesting…the test pilot said “transonic” IIRC…is M0.9 not close to being transonic?
In the video he says it is over 35k that the test was done, rolled 90 right and aft stick, is that what you try in bms too?
I tried it at altitudes varying from 25k to 37k. Rolled 90, aft stick. All I got was horrendous energy loss.