SA-6 SEAD without standoff weapons?
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Now that I am trying the new ITO campaigns, I am having difficulty formulating a strategy to defeat the SA-6 without any standoff weapons. For one, it takes sustained 9G turns to defeat the missile, so staying out of its WEZ is ideal. The only problem is that its WEZ is from 300’ AGL to 46,000’ MSL. this makes pop-up attacks and high-altitude GBU attacks impossible. The only other idea I have is lofting, but that still puts me within its WEZ and brings up another problem: the SA-6 is mobile. If I don’t know its position I cannot plan a lofting attack. An ad hoc lofting attack would require sorting targets to find the radar, and in a campaign environment there really isn’t time to go hunting around with the TGP.
Does anyone have ideas or successful tactics they have used against the SA-6?
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it takes sustained 9G turns to defeat the missile,
CAT3 ánd max 5G (edit=okay one 8G spike), little chaff/flare, no ECM:
You can do it too with SA6, i’ll make another vid someday.
Just dance!
Cheers,
Scub -
The SA-3 is a bit different though. It’s less maneuverable and takes less G to defeat than the SA-6.
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200’ ft AGL, Jammer and Guns?
SA-6 is not TELAR …… in BMS … I think, so just kill the radar. Also … in BMS … I don’t think the SA-6 move too often, and not in an instant, so if you know the general position, you should be able to let your RWR guide you until you can pick 'em up with TGP/Maverick ‘visually’.
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From my squadron’s experience: lofting JDAMs from low altitude with ECM + chaff works. Use terrain to mask yourself until the pull. The range of the JDAM in this case is about 7 miles. Alternatively you can loft it from high alt, which gives a range of about 12 miles. Remember jamming reduces the range of the older SAMs by 30-50%. Choosing between low and high profile depends on the other threats in the region.
If you’re flying in MP get updated coordinates of the battery radar from a human AWACS before the attack. If not, your best bet is the last coordinates during missions planning.
If you’re flying a two seater (in Israel) you can also use LGBs from very high altitude. This may keep you outside of the effective WEZ with ECM on, though we haven’t tried this because we stick to the C model. If you spot the radar on TGP it’s probably better to loft JDAMs anyway because they are fire and forget.
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No Mavericks in ITO, though. Limited to CBUs, JDAMs, LGBs, and iron. I’m trying to figure out how to hit the radar without getting killed. I’d have to look at the SA-6 battalion’s composite, but if there are no MANPADs or magical AK-47s around I wonder if a 200’ hi-drag bomb pass will work?
If you’re flying a two seater (in Israel) you can also use LGBs from very high altitude.
What altitude do you think would work best? I think 32,000 is probably the highest I could get operationally.
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Attacking using high drag bombs from low altitude is pretty suicidal these days regardless of the target type, which is why many air forces don’t do it anymore AFAIK…
What altitude do you think would work best? I think 32,000 is probably the highest I could get operationally.
I hardly fly with LGBs but higher is better (is there a height limit to the laser designator? can’t remember)
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With a supposed min. engagement altitude of 164’ for the SA-6 it probably is suicidal, but I might try it for giggles. I remember reading in the c. 1997 -34 that the LANTIRN couldn’t operate above a certain altitude but I don’t think that is modeled in BMS.
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With a supposed min. engagement altitude of 164’ for the SA-6 it probably is suicidal, but I might try it for giggles. I remember reading in the c. 1997 -34 that the LANTIRN couldn’t operate above a certain altitude but I don’t think that is modeled in BMS.
I was (mostly) tongue-in-cheek, but I have done that, pretty easily, with SA-2 and SA-3 (although what Scub posted is a lot more elegant).
Terrain masking, if you can, and a popup sounds like a better idea. Easy with Mavericks …… if you had 'em.
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(is there a height limit to the laser designator? can’t remember)
IIRC, approximately 21,000ft. Could be a bit higher or lower, though.
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With a supposed min. engagement altitude of 164’ for the SA-6 it probably is suicidal, but I might try it for giggles. I remember reading in the c. 1997 -34 that the LANTIRN couldn’t operate above a certain altitude but I don’t think that is modeled in BMS.
LANTIRN. That brings back memories…use to buy those for the USAF while stationed at Wright-Patterson AFB.
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There was a height limit on the targets if you adjusted the “bubble” settings, laser/radar/visual modes. Clouds and precip may degrade its’ ability. Not having a lasing pod installed can be an issue too. Can’t find the BMS pod limit, RP5 they set an inhibit for firing the laser above 25,000’ barometric, the claim being that the tgp will have electrical issues above this height. Can’t find which way BMS went with it.
-Babite -
Well, I found lofting on the SA-6 is a bit risky. Loft cue doesn’t appear until 7nm out. I managed to defeat all of his missiles after lofting but over-G’d my jet in the process.
The SA-6 also somehow managed to track and launch on me through a hill
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Hi Jinro!
Did a quicky for you! Perhaps not as elegant as the other vids! Hope you like it!
Dancing with a SA6 in CAT3 config:
Cheers,
Scubps. i like your screenshot better than my vid! Can i use your screenshot? If yes, do you have it in higher res? thx mate!
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I found GBU-38s from 33,000’ to work best. The SA-6 still launches on me as soon as my bombs come off the rails, but they don’t seem to track very well. I still got hit, but I think if I had done a straight 180* and got out of there it would have been a success.
On a side note, the TGP will not slave to STPT when in MAN bombing mode….
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Just task an ECM flight like a prowler and knock every SAM down with club or throw rocks at it until it explodes. No problem.
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:lol: That’s the way to do it, but I don’t think it’s possible in the campaigns.
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http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/600/kwx7.jpg
Well it worked. The only question is how long can I reproduce this without getting hit by a Golden BB from an AK-47?
Simple, next time…… GO FAST!
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Or maybe you think about the fact that an active SA-6 in target aerea is a Mission Abort? You can not win in every Mission, thats also not realistic