SA-6 SEAD without standoff weapons?
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[QUOTE=Babite;Remember - a pilots 1st objective is to bring his “Bird” home sans dammage. Then with dammage. Then be where tasked to be. And then causing destruction.
-Babite
I disagree with you there , the first objective of any soldier is to complete his mission (with minimal dammage and casualties for his body and weapon of course)and allow the other forced to complete theirs . Just watch a few fight stories on the history channel and see how many pilots,infantry and tank fighters kept on fighting against all odds just to complete their mission knowing they will be shot down,hit,or captured .
Read some books about the Yom-Kipur 1973 war in Israel and you might change your mind seeing what could have happened if that was the main concern of the fighters . -
Those who do that get awarded a medal.
Those who just do their job and come home alive get their salary.
If I was ever trained to do what the single guy did to gain a medal, then medals would not exist.
I like to compare the foreign militairy ops with the medival crusades. Most knights and templars were going for the adventure or the money…or were forced to. Just few had some honest noble or personal cause.Its a different story when your coutry is invaded and you are defending it directly. Men (and women) will be more than willing to defend it or die trying.
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Lofting JDAMs around 20000 ft , M 0.9 works very fine. The range is 10 milse over so you can take SA-6 out very safely.
10nm? When I tried it from 33,000 ft I only got 7nm range.
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In real IAF jets would probably use some man in the loop weapons. GBU-15, AGM-142 and even some better weapons from that family.
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Forgrt about HUD’s DLZ. It’s not represent “real” JDAM’s coverage. And from my experience, speed is more important than altitude. At such high altitude, you lose too much speed when lofting so “actual range(not mean DLZ!!)” go decrease
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Drop in MAN mode, right? The TGP won’t work in that mode for some reason…
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In real IAF jets would probably use some man in the loop weapons. GBU-15, AGM-142 and even some better weapons from that family.
Yeap, they will be in the theater as soon as they modeled in BMS Actually the GBU-15 is on two seaters already but not modeled correctly as you know.
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Drop in MAN mode, right? The TGP won’t work in that mode for some reason…
Yes in MAN mode. First make MARK from TGP or FCR, and set FCR to MARK. May little bit busy but works fine.
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@ ofir1016 - I think we may be saying the same thing - if you consider “bird” as both body and weapon. I think it was the Kevin Costner version of Robin Hood where he says the Crusades taught him that one man defending his home is (more powerful, stronger, ?) than 10 paid soldiers. Also later he says Nobility is not a birthright, since he saw full on knights turn tail in the face of battle and a “lowly” squire defending a dying horse.
I’d agree that if fighting a war for your home you may say to hell with the consequences, even if fighting for your life. Merely that the doctorine is to save the equipment, at least with reguard to the checklists for the virtual bird. You’re no good to anyone if you’re dead. To the infantry/tank/pilot remark - plenty of stories out there saying in war you aren’t fighting for your country, people, way of life, … . You’re fighting for those immediately around you - your brothers in arms. Full Metal Jacket comes to mind most readily. But when it’s actually your ace in the hole, I think you’d agree you’re fighting to stay alive above all most of the time.
And I’d be more than willing to watch the History chan.'s stories, the only thing stopping me is no access to cable.
@ Neptune - I think you said it.
@jinro88 - I’ve got it. Psyops. Recall Apocalypse Now. They attached loud speakers to the heweys and played Flight of the Valkries. Loud. There’s your answer. Attach some speakers to your F-16 and play some loud music. Something super annoying. Bieber comes to mind, but pick something super annoying. Leave some survivors at the site. Drop some tapes or CD’s. Then send letters to their military circulars that those running the SA-6’s will continue to be torchered with that until they give up. Guarentee they’ll stop.
-Babite -
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Yeap, they will be in the theater as soon as they modeled in BMS Actually the GBU-15 is on two seaters already but not modeled correctly as you know.
Well… 3-4 weeks no? :mrgreen:
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@ ofir1016 - I think we may be saying the same thing - if you consider “bird” as both body and weapon. I think it was the Kevin Costner version of Robin Hood where he says the Crusades taught him that one man defending his home is (more powerful, stronger, ?) than 10 paid soldiers. Also later he says Nobility is not a birthright, since he saw full on knights turn tail in the face of battle and a “lowly” squire defending a dying horse.
I’d agree that if fighting a war for your home you may say to hell with the consequences, even if fighting for your life. Merely that the doctorine is to save the equipment, at least with reguard to the checklists for the virtual bird. You’re no good to anyone if you’re dead. To the infantry/tank/pilot remark - plenty of stories out there saying in war you aren’t fighting for your country, people, way of life, … . You’re fighting for those immediately around you - your brothers in arms. Full Metal Jacket comes to mind most readily. But when it’s actually your ace in the hole, I think you’d agree you’re fighting to stay alive above all most of the time.
And I’d be more than willing to watch the History chan.'s stories, the only thing stopping me is no access to cable.
@ Neptune - I think you said it.
@jinro88 - I’ve got it. Psyops. Recall Apocalypse Now. They attached loud speakers to the heweys and played Flight of the Valkries. Loud. There’s your answer. Attach some speakers to your F-16 and play some loud music. Something super annoying. Bieber comes to mind, but pick something super annoying. Leave some survivors at the site. Drop some tapes or CD’s. Then send letters to their military circulars that those running the SA-6’s will continue to be torchered with that until they give up. Guarentee they’ll stop.
-BabiteSpeakers to your F-16 ? you know that Fighters when flying at medium altitude or low altitude try to fly at airspeed where you can only hear them when they are already passed youÉ they actually try to avoid being heard when incoming. And the SAm-6 operator is not sitting in the outside waiting for jet noise to actually shoot yeah ? lol
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Yes, and it is unfair. The power of SOJ is too strong in Falcon, literally kills the enemy SAMs, many times they are not able even to launch missile while they remain active (as I can remember) therefore they can be still targetted by ARMs.
Yes, but that’s mainly related to the fact that the AD in F4 BMS is controlled by AI and not very smart. If they would just aquire your flight data through data link from another radar or blink or just leave it off until you’re near, they would be a major threat.
Right now, SEAD is not that difficult with HARMs. -
Speakers to your F-16 ? you know that Fighters when flying at medium altitude or low altitude try to fly at airspeed where you can only hear them when they are already passed youÉ they actually try to avoid being heard when incoming. And the SAm-6 operator is not sitting in the outside waiting for jet noise to actually shoot yeah ? lol
Pretty sure he was kidding ……
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sorry, my bad
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Hi Jinro!
Did a quicky for you! Perhaps not as elegant as the other vids! Hope you like it!
Dancing with a SA6 in CAT3 config:
I just had to try this by myself. It includes some risk, but it has a chance to work out. It has something like kamikaze.
I tried low altitude passes with lofting the CBU’s, but you can’t sort out the targets then and the CBU’s will be pretty much useless- you need to pop up to drop them above burst altitude either way. If you go in low and fast, you have difficulties sorting out the right target.
Sound totally crazy, but I had sucess with lofting two MK-20’s at about 30k. That almost killed me (near miss), I had to get some speed fast and ended up in the same dancing dive than you did. Had to dogde 7 SA-6 until the MK-20 finally impacted. I got an ACMI tape, but can’t upload it here due to the size.I’d try to get someone together in multiplayer and use one aircraft as bait for the SA-6 staying just inside their WEZ to make them launch while the other one goes in low and fast and knocks out their radar. This might work out as well.
Recon on the SAM and setting a target steerpoint right on the straight flush does NOT give the exact coordinates of the radar btw. Using the radar and setting a markpoint on this point works better and will at least hit something. I found out looking out for the smaller returns in the middle of the group in DBS2 had the most success. -
The whole point I try to make with my video is to show people that you actually are capable of doing much more with your F16 in CAT3! with relative low G turns! than you might previously have thought. Not necessarily the point that you have to do this to engage a SAM. Practice makes you relax more, reduces risk, makes it anything but kamikaze, makes you feel more sufficient, makes you feel missle behavior. As far as SA6, SA5, SA3, SA2 is concerned, it shouldn’t have to be that exciting for people Hope the video shows that.
Practice and have fun doing it!
Cheers,
Scub -
Great video Scuby! Well done!
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The whole point I try to make with my video is to show people that you actually are capable of doing much more with your F16 in CAT3!
Never thought it was that easy. But it is understandable because the SA-6 will pull “just” 15G which is not that much given the speed it travels. I always used different approaches- one of them is pointing the nose straight down (exactly down), one wing to the SAM, drop chaff, jammer off and most of the older systems will break lock. Your relative speed is zero then.
Thanks for the video, well done!But still, I prefer having the HARM to knock the radar out first and then go in with LGB’s or Mav’s (if not carrying drop tanks).
Just attach Justin Bieber directly, forget the speakers.
You might also drop him right in the middle of the SAM side as close as possible to the radar which will instantly destroy the SAM’s ability to track anything by knocking out the operators with blood in their ears. :shock: