Am I the only one who's missing something?
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One question for you in return : did you take the time to read the FM articles on the home page ? If not, do so, and then you can make some remarks about the FM.
I was not making any remarks about the flight model per se. As far as that goes I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of people ‘buy whatever the devs have to offer’, not everyone is a fighter pilot, that’s why the job of the dev is all the more important, he has to try and make it ‘as close as it gets’ Glad to hear that Mav was and is up for it But let’s be fair - BMS is the ONLY F16 COMBAT sim out there at the moment. I mean, what do you compare it to? I does not have a competition, it doesn’t have the stimulus to improve…Ever since update 1 no significant change has been introduced to the weapon systems (I might be wrong about this one, but at least none that I have noticed to qualify as a ‘big’ or ‘fundamental’) either munitions wise or sensors wise
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Because that’s not a job for the update. Such major new system is for a new version like 4.33.
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Care to offer one of those instances where BMS is pretty far off? The sooner you bring it to someone’s attention, the sooner it can be fixed
Oh wow, that’s gonna be a rather long list, quite honestly I don’t even care to post it But yeah, it’s been discussed before, it has been, for a long time. But it has to be said that BMS at this state is more than enjoyable, it is more than accurate enough for 99% of the people to work with. But do not claim it is a pro mil sim (software wise) which costs millions of bucks
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@mookar:
I was not making any remarks about the flight model per se. As far as that goes I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of people ‘buy whatever the devs have to offer’, not everyone is a fighter pilot, that’s why the job of the dev is all the more important, he has to try and make it ‘as close as it gets’ Glad to hear that Mav was and is up for it But let’s be fair - BMS is the ONLY F16 COMBAT sim out there at the moment. I mean, what do you compare it to? I does not have a competition, it doesn’t have the stimulus to improve…Ever since update 1 no significant change has been introduced to the weapon systems (I might be wrong about this one, but at least none that I have noticed to qualify as a ‘big’ or ‘fundamental’) either munitions wise or sensors wise
Although I do not find the logic flawed, in principle, I must say that there are a lot of pilots, F-16 or else, who have flown BMS and are in awe of the fidelity of the flight model, avionics and more. Could it be better? Sure. Is it the best sim out there? You bet.
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Is it the best sim out there? You bet.
Hate to nitpick but ‘The best F16 Sim’ - yes, it certainly is that
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Im sorry, perhaps we should have been more clear.
@mookar:
I can read everything but BMS FM unrealistic , I can’t LOL
Well in quite a lot instances BMS is still pretty far off, I’m sure you’ll agree on that
Mav defends the Flight Model BMS uses, you describe it as being pretty far off.
@mookar:
I was not making any remarks about the flight model per se.
Now you have concluded that the flight model is not needing remarks, per se?
@mookar:
As far as that goes I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of people ‘buy whatever the devs have to offer’, not everyone is a fighter pilot, that’s why the job of the dev is all the more important, he has to try and make it ‘as close as it gets’ Glad to hear that Mav was and is up for it But let’s be fair - BMS is the ONLY F16 COMBAT sim out there at the moment. I mean, what do you compare it to? I does not have a competition, it doesn’t have the stimulus to improve…Ever since update 1 no significant change has been introduced to the weapon systems (I might be wrong about this one, but at least none that I have noticed to qualify as a ‘big’ or ‘fundamental’) either munitions wise or sensors wise
You’ve missed the point of the updates… they were not intended to offer fundamental changes. They were optional quality of life updates. You want big or fundamental changes, you want to wait for 4.33 - and you will not likely see anything big or fundamental being changed there, in the area of the F-16s flight model - which as Im sure you have noticed, is the topic of this thread.
You want to comment on the accuracy of the sim in areas other than its flight model, then fine - but a 10 month old necro’d thread about the flight model and aerobraking is not the place to do it.
EDIT: well, beaten again, this time by Amraam. Seems I need not be so quick to say what can be said by others…
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Quote Originally Posted by mookar View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Mav-jp View Post
I can read everything but BMS FM unrealistic , I can’t LOL
Well in quite a lot instances BMS is still pretty far off, I’m sure you’ll agree on that Mav defends the Flight Model BMS uses, you describe it as being pretty far off.Yeah maybe a misunderstanding is in place - maybe I should’ve said ‘In a lot of instances OTHER THAN the FM…’ that would’ve made more sense in the context of the thread, btw is it really that old it popped up in the beginning of the ‘General’ Section that’s why looked at it, I must’ve missed it at the date of it’s creation
You’ve missed the point of the updates…
It appears that I’ve missed it totally So is it even ‘decent’ to ask when 4.33 is due? :D:D:D
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Nobody know, even the dev team. When is ready.
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@mookar:
But do not claim it is a pro mil sim (software wise) which costs millions of bucks
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Yesterday, I have dined with a friend (RL) former Mirage2000’s pilot, now on RAFALE, and who are F4 BMS user … and discussed about the benefits of such public simulation.
He confirmed (what I already knew because I am in the same case) that BMS is far superior on some (many) aspects to most of RL pro sims which are not made to reproduce dynamic environment like we have in our “game”.
As an air defence pilot, flying BMS taught him to REALY pay attention, when engaged in air combat not to descent too much to avoid MANPADS and SHORAD exposure which were not really as demonstrative during pro sim trainings or in flight trainings than in BMS where the “bad” surprises can be everywhere.This is just on of the examples he gaves me.
In the pro sim, no COMAO with real human players (except the very last generation of RAFALE sim which can be linked in network, but only three cabins in the same room/bulding ATM.) no dynamic environment, no AWACS tactical comms … Sometimes even no working RWR or SAM except a scripted missile trail effect just to force the pilot to initiate an evasive but without a “real” missile guidance. Etc…
Pro sim are not necessarily made or contains all the BMS features. Simply because most of pro sim are not all made to train to TACTICS but mostly to procedures, failures, weapon delivery mechanisation etc…
Why those features are usually missing into pro sim? … Simply because each feature cost $$$. A LOT of $$$
Just an example: on my RL pro sim, we have asked TALES if it could be possible to add (place) customs object like tanks or vehicles on given coordinates to simulate a recce mission … Answer was:
_YES! No prob, they will just have to creat a basic model (three cubes with a tube for the canon) and thats it!
How much?
Cheap! … About 3000 - 5000€.
“Glup” … Can we do the model ourselves and integrate it in the sim world?
Sorry, no, this is not possible.
Ok … Thank you … Will do without._
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Pro sims doesn’t have the same depth as BMS and are more “task specific” because of the cost of each asked features.
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Back on the RAFALE pilot … This guy and some other RL pilots including Mirage2000, MirageF1 or even tactical airlift a/c’s pilots actually use BMS which can train and enhance the global SA that their pro sim can’t.
I imagine the benefits for the F-16 drivers.
Thoughts…
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With BMS you have :
- the best F-16 FM for a personnal computer.
- not all, but most of the F-16 avionics.
- an IA sometimes stupid, but which, all in all, get around.
- a whole combat and flight environnment.
As DeeJay said, even military grades simulations often miss out on at least two of these aspects for a given AC.
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Very Nice thoughts Dee-jay, thanks. You and anyone who are in position to do it, should report more often such conversations.
Windblow -
BMS is far superior to most of RL pro sim…
Wow what pro sims are you talking about, they sound ancient There are sims (the actual cockpit of a specific type of aircraft, a main tool during flight training, before you even touch the aircraft you’ll be flying in service) that, as you said, are geared towards the strictly procedural manner of things, reacting to failures and other important stuff. There are also sim that simulate the exact behavior of an airplane and implement it to a virtual environment. Would that virtual environment contain interaction with other airplanes (shooting at them or cooperating with them), evading or avoiding SAMs, cooperating with ground personal on various mission types, is entirely up to the operator who creates the scenario. So far I’ve heard of such sims as an analysis tool, a ‘what if’ testing instrument, people and whole departments in the security authority sector are paid hundreds of millions to develop and maintain those Do not forget that the ‘implementation’ of a new design of, an aircraft e.g., goes through those ‘scenarios’ to check its capability before prod. I doubt that even the wealthiest government would like spend hundreds of millions on a ‘non plausible and perspective design’
I doubt it would be such grief to make those software platforms ‘interactive’, with modern graphics and compatible with peripheral I/O devices. After all they have much more accurate data on different aspects of different munitions and equipment Heck, the monitoring and scoring equipment during Red Flag was based of something similar (that ‘tracked’ missile launches and evasion of the participants). -
So far you say “I’ve heard of” “To many to name” and “I don’t know the name” to support your theories.
Meanwhile Dee-Jay has referenced talking to an actual pilot, to say nothing of his accomplished work on BMS.
Do you have any actual evidence? Because your entire argument here is nothing more then unsubstantiated claims.
If that’s your argument, then I’m actually a Billionaire son of Tony Stark, and you can’t prove otherwise because I’ve heard it’s true, my sources are to many to list, and I can’t tell you the name of anyone who can corroborate my story.
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@mookar:
Wow what pro sims are you talking about, they sound ancient…
Usualy, flight sims are developed in the same time than the aircraft itself … Yes, they have been almost all retrofited, but again, it HIGHLY depends on avaibable budget. I do not remeber how much cost the A400M’s simulator (mostly based on the A380’s sim) but it is huge. And like any other aircrafts capabilities, features depends on military request vs allowed $£€
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ATM, I have ever seen a pro sim able to generate an ATO automaticaly.
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So far you say “I’ve heard of”…
Well, what do you expect me to say, I’m not an employee in such a sector nor am I an expert on the subject. I read about this stuff as have you perhaps, so chill out dude, no reason to be an a^%
…“To many to name”…
I was referring to the list of positive changes that should be made to BMS in order to improve it and this has been discussed before so you could reference it in other dedicated threads
…“I don’t know the name”…
You could reference it through a search in documents section in the web. Again- whatever is declass should come out at 'ya. A computer game forum is not the most suitable place to chit chat about such stuff.
Meanwhile Dee-Jay has referenced talking to an actual pilot
With all my respect for DeeJay, for the sake of argument - how do I know that the conversation he’s talking about actually took place :D… Anyway, enough b&^%sh(*&^%g around
Do you have any actual evidence?
What do you fancy I am - a detective, a lawyer, a prosecutor in court :D:D:D Most of the guys here know what I’m talking about It’s a hobby thing, people read on it if they like and collaborate with the community.
If that’s your argument, then I’m actually a Billionaire son of Tony Stark, and you can’t prove otherwise because I’ve heard it’s true, my sources are to many to list, and I can’t tell you the name of anyone who can corroborate my story.
You seem to be very keen on this debate thing, write a few line PM and we’ll argue if you want but do not bother people that don’t care in the forum of a community among which I’ve met very good follows and of which I proudly feel as a part
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That said, of course BMS will NEVER replace a pro sim. But thinking that this sim is just a simple video game is just wrong
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remember -
If you meet a viper pilot on an airshow and he knows BMS and is impressed by this sim then this means a lot IMO.
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I rather think this is pretty damn off topic.
Pie, anyone?
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If you meet a viper pilot on an airshow and he knows BMS and is impressed by this sim then this means a lot IMO.
Agree, that’s one of the most definitive forms of recognition.