AIM-7M sparrow & the RWR
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Chaffs has 0 effect on ARHs currently even if you combine with ECM + beming + ground clutter. Period.
On ARHs maybe, but not on enemy RADARS …that´s my whole point. I don´t know how you use them and what kind of chaff resistance reasearch you made, but i
implement them succussfully in BMS.PS: 4.33 might improve thinks maybe towards your liking…
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I do not understand what you implemented.
Airborne and advanced double digit SAM radars are much more powerful and capable stuff than small ARH onboard radars and they can be (easily in some cases) defeated by combo what I listed but totally inferior and smaller missile onboard radars are immune…? This is more than silly…
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There seems to be a glitch with beam riders in sim, as I got that as well plenty of times with SAMs.
In the game, this is no necessarily modeled, but you can consider those “glitches” as a “positive false”
And that’s why I love this glitch. It keeps me having to scan visually even after the RWR track disappears!
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i don’t know if you have supervision or something but once the missile starts drifting it’s impossible to see unless it’s about 1s outside your cockpit, and that’s way too late to change your course or maneuver.
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Molni, BMS is being tested all the time by RL Viper drivers, and we hadn’t heard anything about AIM-120s being over modeled.
You all the time like to think that missiles are so easily spoofed but that’s not the case… i don’t know which world you think of but at nowadays era with missiles that do all kind of stuff like LOAL 360 shots, DL shots, with crazy maneuverability, the chances to avoid a modern missile are indeed very low.
There is already a “trick” to defeat the AIM-120 in BMS no? although it probably doesn’t worth much because real efficient shot is done inside NEZ, and I want to see someone defeat a clean shot of AIM-120 when fired well inside NEZ range and not aware of the time that the missile was fired.
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Molni, BMS is being tested all the time by RL Viper drivers, and we hadn’t heard anything about AIM-120s being over modeled.
I thank the RL Viper drivers for their input, as I’m sure this makes BMS better, but I’m also fairly sure that they won’t let the BMS team simulate the full extent of real life problems of whatever weapon they can employ…
I don’t know where Molni got his information, nor do I have any of my own, so I can’t really comment on him, but I do know anyone who wants to can download BMS for free and use it to see how the F-16 operates. If the real AIM-120C would hit less than 37% (just a random number) of the targets it’s fired at due to connection bugs between shooter and missile (just a random reason), you wouldn’t want that information spread out, especially if the PR department wants any hostile force to believe that it’s pretty much a “one-shot-one-kill” missile that they want to avoid at all costs. The same Viper drivers that give you valuable feedback on whatever system will (or at least should) not tell you about such faults, as it may some day save their life if the enemy believes their opponent is carrying “super-weapons”.
BMS can definitely aim to be the most realistic sim out there, but because of said reason and it focusing mainly/solely on the F-16, it will always be (slightly) biased in favour of western aircraft. Does not necessarily need to be a problem, but should be something to be aware of when building and flying the sim.
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Here is a off, on page 25 there is statistics of aim-120a &c fired between -92-99.
http://www.mossekongen.no/downloads/2008_RAND_Pacific_View_Air_Combat_Briefing.pdf
Don’t know about references but interesting.
There is also some figures on aim-9m for example, 48 fired and 11kills during DS.Cheers
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Lots of reports that most of the sidewinders fired in ODS were the result of unintentionally pickling, too.
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Lots of reports that most of the sidewinders fired in ODS were the result of unintentionally pickling, too.
Exactly. The RL kill ratio of intentionally launched was about 65%.
Detailed AAM stats.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/grlx9uyt34yimge/AAM-stats.zipHere is a off, on page 25 there is statistics of aim-120a &c fired between -92-99.
http://www.mossekongen.no/downloads/2008_RAND_Pacific_View_Air_Combat_Briefing.pdf
Don’t know about references but interesting.
There is also some figures on aim-9m for example, 48 fired and 11kills during DS.Cheers
This RAND stuff has been beaten to death. It has so funny aspects and statements…
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I thank the RL Viper drivers for their input, as I’m sure this makes BMS better, but I’m also fairly sure that they won’t let the BMS team simulate the full extent of real life problems of whatever weapon they can employ…
Of course not, and especially classified stuff… but there is still a ballpark, if we are in then it’s good.
@ALL I don’t know what RL statistics you are coming with, but I’m talking about pure outmaneuvering and not some statistics… what are the chances to escape a clean AMRAAM shot in good parameters in RL? not so good I believe… it’s like in BMS you can take AMRAAM shot from 20NM and get a kill but in case the missile is detected in time it would be easy enough to spoof…
If anyone can get real statistics of AMRAAM shots when were fired inside the NEZ, now that would be nice.
And also a lot of time passed since the early 90s… come on, can anyone think there is an AC that can outmaneuver a Pyhton-4/5 shot or AIM-9XII or AIM-2000 when they are fired in NEZ?
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I want to see someone defeat a clean shot of AIM-120 when fired well inside NEZ range and not aware of the time that the missile was fired.
I desperately wish I had that ACMI now.
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And also a lot of time passed since the early 90s… come on, can anyone think there is an AC that can outmaneuver a Pyhton-4/5 shot or AIM-9XII or AIM-2000 when they are fired in NEZ?
It what aspect and what kinematics in certain case?
The AIM-9X has much less drag as AIM-9M because of much less lift generating surface comarping to older Winder… but this means weaker turning capabilty on the same speed…
The AIM-9X may represents a new conception where a portion of manouverability after engine burnout is sacrificed for bigger (all aspect) range. This is possible becaise of because of being smokeless if case the bigger eng. range in head aspect the launch cannot be detected with eyeball only in case you the target is lucky or has good MAWS. The new generation of imaging IR seeker has better range as classic non imaging seekers.
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OK… Please tell me if any AC can outmaneuver this please:
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You all the time like to think that missiles are so easily spoofed but that’s not the case… i don’t know which world you think of but at nowadays era with missiles that do all kind of stuff like LOAL 360 shots, DL shots, with crazy maneuverability, the chances to avoid a modern missile are indeed very low.
… not only chaffs. Nowadays, even falres has a very weak effiency on most of IR missiles working in band II. The poblem of chaffs is their dispersion and speed decrease making them easy to be rejected by missile AD.
Chaff and flares are not something to guaranty a missile defeat but only a possible chance to survive. The only way to ensure a high chance to survive, is to not enter into the WEZ.
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OK… Please tell me if any AC can outmaneuver this please:
As I know both P4/P5 has also very different conception comparing to other HOBS capable IRSRAAMs. Their rocket engine has unusally longer burn time (10-12 sec) but lower max. thrust which ensures better average speed to make usable the unusually high area of aerodynamic surfaces - and aviod the unnecessary acceleration after the launch in case of the target BOF is very high - but this also does not mean that in terminal phase at close to subsonic speed (or below supersonic) they cannot be outmanouvered as othe SAMs and AAMs either…
Too many times I have felt national pride in case Israeli/French/USA etc. missiles are discussed and a native of these countries participated in discussions…
What a surprise, when I had discussions with some older SAM operation from WPACT countires they also said so funny things that a 3 missile Neva salvo cannot be outmanovered, etc… -
Chaff and flares are not something to guaranty a missile defeat but only a possible chance to survive. The only way to ensure a high chance to survive, is to not enter into the WEZ.
+1
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Too many times I have felt national pride in case Israeli/French/USA etc
… where … ?
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As I know both P4/P5 has also very different conception comparing to other HOBS capable IRSRAAMs. Their rocket engine has unusally longer burn time (10-12 sec) but lower max. thrust which ensures better average speed to make usable the unusually high area of aerodynamic surfaces - and aviod the unnecessary acceleration after the launch in case of the target BOF is very high - but this also does not mean that in terminal phase at close to subsonic speed (or below supersonic) they cannot be outmanouvered as othe SAMs and AAMs either…
Too many times I have felt national pride in case Israeli/French/USA etc. missiles are discussed and a native of these countries participated in discussions…
What a surprise, when I had discussions with some older SAM operation from WPACT countires they also said so funny things that a 3 missile Neva salvo cannot be outmanovered, etc…National pride… come one man, do you think I care really? FWIW I’m a “green” soldier in at the IDF :mrgreen:
But I see what I see… I’m not a rocket scientist but I see in vid a missile doing 180 turn just the moment after launch where thrust is highest, do you think this can be outmaneuvered by any AC?? how many Gs it’s pulling in that maneuver anyway?
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