373 vFS Operation Phoenix Flag
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As force balance is 3:1 and the Sweep vs DCA is already 1:1 ratio…
…just curious: What is the “objective” of Red Forces? Like a Kill ratio of 1:1, or at least a 50% attrition on “any” Strike Flight… or to keep a especific Set of targets alive ( Hirosima Nuclear Pant or such )…
Again, just curious. I think Blue has a pretty clear and standard goal… but as usual RED´s don´t. (Maybe it has been already settle down, and you can not publish it, so BLUES won´t have it, wich make sense…)
I´ve participated in a mission really similar to this one in the past… many many contacts… lots of dancing with missiles, Strikers just playing safe or helping mesing the picture, and a lot of missiles wasted on both sides…but in the end… the mission was only “enjoyable” by BLUES, as REDS were scheduled to LOSE in any case.
Just make sure those Spanish Gunfighters will have something to fight for…something achivable… or it will soon become dissapointing.
Willing to hear more and more about this wondefull initative…
Keep it up! Great work guys!!!
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The reds have their own brief and will have a fair chanvce to defend from the attack. Also there are AI flights not mentioned above from both sides In any way it will be i hope an enjoyable flight for all and the second one will be better.
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Looking forward to this event already. How long before flying do you expect the final briefing to be available/distributed?
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A nice twist for this event would be to have it on EMF.
Sure a killer for the preparation but a wow on the challenge of a new terrain environment.
Also the ability of having the arena on both sea area Ionian and Aegean at the same time. -
ok from the 320th.
4ship. -
THe briefing is almost finished. I need to do the changes for the new planes and will be out at least a week before the event. Arty yes one of the ideas is to have this in EMF with human awacs etc on both sides using the online squadron collection. We shall see what we can do in the future
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A nice twist for this event would be to have it on EMF.
Sure a killer for the preparation but a wow on the challenge of a new terrain environment.
Also the ability of having the arena on both sea area Ionian and Aegean at the same time.Although the terrain is extremely interesting, there’s unfortunately no French 2000s in the current EMF release
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well there are 2000 ain’t? so those are French made… don’t they cover u? or u mean u want French skins and u can’t have them cause of permisions?
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Will blue guy have AGM88 or simply AGM45? Using AGM88 will unbalance more the mission indeed…everybody knows that BMS AGM88 is totally unrealistic, with incredible high Pk and out of earth range. What missile will be onboard?
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everybody knows that BMS AGM88 is totally unrealistic
But much fewer knows that this is BS.
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Range is high in BMS but also IRL. Missile is fast, not so heavy, and with long wings, so aerodynamically, it is good.
The seeker does not need a lot of power (passive receptor) so the battery lasts and the time of flight can be important. Personnally, I think HARM aero performance is pretty sound.Missile pK is a bit too high now indeed, especially without EMCON tactics from SAM and perfect INS.
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E69 4 pilots for red side. :headb:
Waiting news for conection and TS to have a meeting before action
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The AGM88 is the classic weapon for the SEAD missions. If you think it’s unbalanced maybe the BMS Devs can take that as an to do thing for the next update. Also if you think the Red side is no good let me know and 373rd can fly the Red side
This is a mission to fly and have fun.
Thanks
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The problem is that in BMS a HARM can be fired at 70-80 nm from the SA10 at A40 and hit it with 100% Pk…reports from Gulf War are far away from that Pk…
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The problem is that in BMS a HARM can be fired at 70-80 nm from the SA10 at A40 and hit it with 100% Pk…reports from Gulf War are far away from that Pk…
First : a lot of shots done “in preventive”.
Second : IMHO, I’m pretty sure the missile can go that far IRL.
Third : EMCON tactics, first version of HARM without INS, means that if you shut down your radar, missile cannot hit you… I am pretty sure Iraqi operators quickly learned to do that.
In F4, the HARM INS was assumed perfect (and still is), that is the biggest unrealistic thing. Otherwise, I think its pretty decent.
If you think it’s unbalanced maybe the BMS Devs can take that as an to do thing for the next update.
First : unbalanced does not matter, unrealistic does.
Second : wait 3-4 weeks ( ) and see
Anyway this discussion has already been beaten to death and this thread is not specifically about this
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Cruz said all.
The problem is that in BMS a HARM can be fired at 70-80 nm from the SA10 at A40 and hit it with 100% Pk…reports from Gulf War are far away from that Pk…
It is not a question of PK. It is about how HARM are used IRL (refert to Cruz’s post) and radar operators are working (not implemented in BMS).
But we can agree on the fact that in BMS, HARM successfulness are higher than what we have seen IRL until now. But not only related to the missile itself.
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The problem is that in BMS a HARM can be fired at 70-80 nm from the SA10 at A40 and hit it with 100% Pk…reports from Gulf War are far away from that Pk…
Dont worry Daisan, this is just an exercise to make some friends and enjoy flying together. Lets give our best to put blue forces in a difficult situation. No problem if they have Harms or Jsow, lets kick some blue asses and take some beers after if we can
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if there is sortage on the RED side, 320th can fill it
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Sorry to spoil the thread, but could not resist on the HARM issue. This is a previous post of mine on the same issue, years ago.
Few things about SEAD / DEAD in real life and in BMS
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The HTS is a US luxury pod. Outside the US, the Pentagon offers an export downgraded version HTS(E), which as the name implies is something less capable. AFAIK, only a handful of air forces have the HTS(E) pod, but again even this pod is not a truly HTS one.
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The HTS pod is a reactive one. That means the GBAD or an EW radar has to emmit in order to be detected by the pod.
For the above two reasons, POS modes are handy and the only SEAD choice for the majority of western air forces outside the US.
As for the philosophy that lies behind POS mode employment and HTS pod, we can take two RL extreme case scenarios:
a) The amateurish Arabic SAM tactics as were observed during Operation Desert Storm (Iraq), Operation El Dorado Canyon (Libya 1986) and Operation Mole Cricket 19 (Lebanon 1982).
b) The superb Serb SAM tactics as were observed during Operation Allied Force.
In the first three cases, the US and Israeli forces first jammed or destroyed the EW radars of the enemy. This in turn forced the Iraqis, the Libyans and the Syrians to operate the radars of their SAMs to search for western a/c. A devastating tactic because they operated them for long time. As a result, Wild Weasel a/c had no difficulty to pinpoint and destroy them with anti radiation missiles. In addition, during the Bekaa Valley turkey shoot, the Syrians operated the mobile SA-6 as if they were static.
This is what happens -to some extend- in BMS as well. Falcon BMS does not simulate an IADS or at least a linked GBADs system. Every SAM in Falcon is an autonomous unit that does not EMCON (EMission CONtrol). In fact, SEAD missions are quite easy regardless of the lethality of the SAM system. Just load an HTS pod and chances are that you gonna hit a SAM most of the time.
Quite the contrary happened during the Operation Allied Force. The Serbs employed shoot and hide tactics to a great extend and they took advantage of their mobile SAMs. In fact out of the 25 SA-6 they had, only 3 SA-6 were destroyed during the 75 days campaign. Because of the forrest terrain, JSTARS could not easily find ground moving targets, therefore ELINT was poor since day 1. Furthermore, the Serbs operated their SAM radars for about 20 secs maximum. Enough time to take a picture and short time for every reaction SEAD move. In addition, they operated land based communication links. An EW radar that was not jammed by Prowlers, could get an aerial picture and fed it to widespead GBADs. When the Allied a/c were within the SAMs envelope, then and only then the Serb operators would switch on their SAM radar, track (not search), fire immediately and few secs then they switched them off again and they relocated.
With the aforementioned SAM tactic, an HTS pod cannot offer much. To counter for this uncertainty, the SEAD F-16CJ fired pre-emptive HARMs (PET Shots) in POS modes. Whenever a Strike package was about to reach an area where SA-6 were thought to be present, the SEAD flight fired a salvo of HARMs in predetermined time intervals. The logic behind this was that should the SA-6 switched on their radar then a HARM could catch it. If the Serbs wouldnt operate the SAM radars then the strike package would continue unopposed.
Most of the time the Serbs didnt switched on their SAM radars (EMCON procedures) but they fired salvos of missiles ballistically. Although unguided, this tactic forced many Allied a/c to jettison their stores, abandon their missions and start defensive maneuvers for psychological reasons. In fact, 65% of the 700+ HARM shots during the Allied Force operation were PET shots in POS modes.
Anyway, I am sure Cipher will make a great mission with or without HARMs
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Anyway, I am sure Cipher will make a great mission with or without HARMs
+100
This is the reason E69 will be there!!