F-16 radar range
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/me facepalm….
beam means 90°.
On a non doppler radar, beaming would have no effect and you would see an AC whatever its aspect angle. But because the APG-66 or 68 is a doppler radar, beaming means having little to no relative speed compared to the radar, and that will cause the return to be rejected, the radar will think it is ground clutter.
Yes, and what about in case target is not in ground clutter? In this case beaming maybe does not have effect in RL.
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Read RP5 manual. All explained nicely there.
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Read RP5 manual. All explained nicely there.
IMHO there are some modeling issues wich is better are not known by the users.
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As long as gameplay is not hampered, these manuals are the best resource out there especially for beginners like me. That’s all
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What a player should know:
- The game uses an abscraction to model EW, not RL EW quations.
- Each AC have unique RCS values so even with same radar detection range is different.
- The RCS value is modified depending on aspect, mod all AC uses the same modifier (as I know) by the code since RP5.0.
- Following factors are used (at least) to calculate the detection
range value of the radar
look down value of radar against targets in ground clutter
beam dist. modifier against targetst which are do beaming manouver (each radar has a closing velocity vector treshold value to trigger this)
ECM modifier (against lock)
distance
RCS
aspect
radar mode, TWS, RWS and VS have different range modifiers, they are not strong modifiers but they are existing according RP5.0
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In this case beaming maybe does not have effect in RL.
Ground clutter or not, for a Doppler radar, beam = beam = zero relative speed = invisible.
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And F-16 is not impacted by the look down value in the DB.
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Ground clutter or not, for a Doppler radar, beam = beam = zero relative speed = invisible.
Ok, but today’s radar are pulse-doppler radars, right? Or do they use only doppler theory based technology to detect anything?
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its worth mentioning that the F-16 radar scans at max range regardless of the ‘range’ set in the FCR - which is just there to increase readability. if you set 40 range, it doesnt mean you are limiting your radar range, just the display.
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Nope, with your opponent in beam, the radar will have some difficulties to see the contact due to low closing speed value.
Let’s try a another example :You are a F-16 block 50, and you try to lock a Mig-29 :
- opponent in head / cold : 38 nm
- opponent in beam : 17 nm
Then surely BMS has this wrong, with cold aspect the closing speed is even less than if it were beaming.
I think with ‘beaming’ you actually mean ‘notching’ considering Doppler radars reject contacts with closing speeds in the region of 70kts/-70kts. The notch is only effective within that closure rate so simply beaming is not enough, you need to perform a perfect notch to achieve such a low closure rate.PRF is dependent on how a contact is seen, approaching contacts are seen easier with High PRF within a speed of something like 70-1500kts whilst receding targets are seen better seen with low PRF. The F-16 will use both PRFs called interleave unless asked with a specialised mode to just look for high speed contacts. So with normal operating mode interleave it would see hot contacts and beaming aspect contacts at similar ranges and should actually see beaming contacts further away due to the higher RCS, until they hit that magic closure number which causes the radar to reject them as clutter and they disappear off the scope.
Receding targets (cold) are harder for the radar to pick up and should be less range than both hot and beaming contacts. -
By closing speed, I mean a positive or negative value. In cold, doppler radar see very well. Nothing wrong here.
In Falcon DB, each aircraft radar have a tolerance of closure rate. Depending of it, it will be more or less impacted by the beam / notch. -
???
I will test.FYI
RP5 code is antique. It has been upgraded since OF days Therefore all what is written is RP5 is kot applicable.
No loock down penalty for agp68 beeing just the tip of the iceberg.
No there is no documentation about the BMS radar code
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OK, guys, could you clarify something here - what does the closure speed of the contact have to be for it to be ‘disregarded’ by the radar? Quite frankly the closure speed to a beaming tgt is not zero! If he’s not HOT on you, you are HOT on him, so you have some plus speed rate! The closure speed would be zero if both you and the tgt are beaming! So as frostie said, there should be a number there for the radar to sort out more accurately.
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Closure speed has nothing to do with returns being rejected by a Pulse Doppler radar. His speed over the ground TOWARDS you is all that matters. PD Radar is used to filter out the ground returns from the radar display and this is done by rejecting returns within a +/- speed range. That’s why Helicopters flying low and slow are such a PITA (in peace time) to find due to not breaking the filter speed and why fast German cars on the Autobahn we’re such a pain for the USAF in the 80’s (until they upped the filter speed to reject them).
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FYI
RP5 code is antique. It has been upgraded since OF days Therefore all what is written is RP5 is kot applicable.
No loock down penalty for agp68 beeing just the tip of the iceberg.
No there is no documentation about the BMS radar code
So in case I fly with M-2k same code is applied? Why was set such modeling value…?
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Modern pulse radar doppler do.not suffer feom look down problems
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Just for the record, some little (v)9 FACTS:
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APG-68(v)9 displays ERS instead of RWS for the master mode. RWS was up to (v)8 radar system.
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MMC computer is an enhancement to the radar capabilities itself. PXIII (Block 52) have (v9) and MMC-5000, PXIV (Block 52+Advanced, or just 52M) have exactly the same (v9) and MMC-7000, with 33% farther detection range.
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Doppler correlation techniques and filters to find beam/notch targets with closure ground speed of 40kts.
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5 SAR modes with 4ft target separation analysis at 40nm in SAR-5 zoom. MMC-7000 also allow target altitude indication (3D coordinates) through guided ditch/popup maneuver.
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GMTI at 80nm.
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Aerial targets history if pilot goes notch/pump above gimbals and returns back within a specific time.
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ACM bore auto acquisition at 15nm.
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MTSAM simultaneously attacking 4 targets with -120’s.
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Radar datalink capable of simultaneously guiding 6 -120’s on 6 different targets in TWS.
Bottom line, we do not have (v)9 in any falcon version.
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His speed over the ground TOWARDS you is all that matters.
So I assume the ‘number’ I was talking about is zero knots.
PD Radar is used to filter out the ground returns…
I was reffering to the beaming, or notching technique for two similar altitude aircraft.
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Modern pulse radar doppler do.not suffer feom look down problems
And here is the problem. Why everybody thinks that Falcon 4.0 should model the very latest Block 50/52…? I do not like when code rules over the DB and makes impossbile to customize the game… It is bad for all 3rd party theater.