Tactical advise

[Buster]

Hi all,

Came across this RWR situation on the egress. Multiple Mig-29 spikeson my 1,3,4 & 5 o’clock.
I was with a 4-ship, each 2 AIM-120’s + 2 AIM-9x. All green and CAT1. But all AI…. How do you tackle this situation?

[jhook]

@Buster:

Hi all,

Came across this RWR situation on the egress. Multiple Mig-29 spikeson my 1,3,4 & 5 o’clock.
I was with a 4-ship, each 2 AIM-120’s + 2 AIM-9x. All green and CAT1. But all AI…. How do you tackle this situation?

In a 4 ship, you can have the element attack 1 group, your wingman to attack another, and you attack another. However, you need to asses where the migs are. You need a good picture before you start off on the hunt. Which group is closest? Which is furthest? Ect. Need that info to help with a better picture of what’s going on.

[Agave_Blue]

E - 7 (Element Clear my Six)

Put the one at 1 O’Clock on the right gimbal, then Wingman, Attack My Target. Fire when/if in range and bug-out.

(Assumes safe zone is your current 12 - 9 o’clock).

Edit:

@jhook:

In a 4 ship, you can have the element attack 1 group, your wingman to attack another, and you attack another. However, you need to asses where the migs are. You need a good picture before you start off on the hunt. Which group is closest? Which is furthest? Ect. Need that info to help with a better picture of what’s going on.

Good point. RWR Hand-off On and Priority Mode On.

[Dee-Jay]

@Buster:

… How do you tackle this situation?

I “KICK” on my 7o’clock via left turn.

[jhook]

@Agave_Blue:

E - 7 (Element Clear my Six)

Put the one at 1 O’Clock on the right gimbal, then Wingman, Attack My Target. Fire when/if in range and bug-out.

(Assumes safe zone is your current 12 - 9 o’clock).

Edit:

Good point. RWR Hand-off On and Priority Mode On.

Or…

Q-3 … HELP!!!

[Mower]

Suggest a B61, sir….go BIG or go home.

[jinro88]

@Dee-Jay:

I “KICK” on my 7o’clock via left turn.

I was going to say something similar. Or–if possible–fire a shot at the single bandit and crank just to get him defensive, then exit stage left.

[Mower]

In all seriousness I would retrograde if possible and push those ****ers out front on a single axis, call for help and re-evaluate. Furballs are for losers.

[Agave_Blue]

@Mower:

Furballs are for losers.

Should be a bumper sticker.

[jinro88]

Furballs are for pussy……cats?

[Cik]

go TWS, beam group in front left, begin firing at MIGs to my front, kick on burner to put space between the group on my right and 6 to stop being archered, once group in front is dead and seperation gained, think about turning to attack the other MIGs, assuming they are at least ~20 miles behind me and are not MIG-29S.

if basically any of those are S you’re probably a dead man, by the way. best way to avoid that situation is never to enter it.

[Mower]

Fire a whack of chainsaws/mad dogs and go home.

[Scuby]

Or: FOX3 long early (little bit around Ropt, but not outside Raero) towards the ^29 at 12’clock, and support the AIM120 in a left cranck (target at right gimbals). Hopefully the AIM120 will get the ^29 AI on defensive run early. I would assume that the hostile aircraft is heading towards friendly area and you keep pressing him into that direction, eithe he’ll get killed by you if he turns hot (your second AIM120 or send your AI wingman after him) or killed by other friendly assets if he keeps running in the wrong direction.

What was your fuel state and how deep where you?

Cheers,
Scub

@Buster:

Hi all,

Came across this RWR situation on the egress. Multiple Mig-29 spikeson my 1,3,4 & 5 o’clock.
I was with a 4-ship, each 2 AIM-120’s + 2 AIM-9x. All green and CAT1. But all AI…. How do you tackle this situation?

[Buster]

hi Jhook,
Thanks for the reply first of all.
Well, the group on my nose was at 20nm. The rest were a little closer, resp. 18, 18 and 15 miles. But all nose hot. Basically 10-20 seconds before the merge (14nm).
We got jumped litteraly and AWACS did not paint the picture fully. We only got the close bandit in the ‘request picture’ call I put out on my bomb run.
I got off two AMRAAMS, then burn to the safe zone (my 9-12) and run but they did get my wingman. It was a very tricky situation and I could not use BVR maneuvering.
So I was wondering how other pilots deal with this situation.

Looking forward to the replies!

[Buster]

thanks Cik! That’s a good way to deal with it. I’ll put that one in my tactical notes. They were closer than 20nm though; but still. That’s a good maneuver.

[Buster]

@Scuby:

Or: FOX3 long early (little bit around Ropt, but not outside Raero) towards the ^29 at 12’clock, and support the AIM120 in a left cranck (target at right gimbals). Hopefully the AIM120 will get the ^29 AI on defensive run early. I would assume that the hostile aircraft is heading towards friendly area and you keep pressing him into that direction, eithe he’ll get killed by you if he turns hot (your second AIM120 or send your AI wingman after him) or killed by other friendly assets if he keeps running in the wrong direction.

What was your fuel state and how deep where you?

Cheers,
Scub

Hi Scuby, Nice one as well. We were on the egress at around 3000 pounds. The 29 on my nose was blocking my route home, and we were slightly past the FLOT. I didn’t take that into consideration actually so thanks. Beaming didn’t come to mind at that moment but it will next time! Thanks again,

[Scuby]

Just remember that your AIM120 may also be a powerful standoff weapon for those type of scenarios. Your best defense though is to never get surrounded. Think less deep, more support flights or frequent in flight sit. checks.

Good luck mate

[cptmtge]

launch first at closet bogie in TWS, call element clear my six while moving your radar cursor over second closest bogie in your radar to order wingman to engage then as soon as you get pitbull prepare to engage the two behind you

[Earlybite]

@jhook:

Or…

Q-3 … HELP!!!

Can someone confirm that there will be raised a flght to help the caller?

[Dee-Jay]

@Earlybite:

Can someone confirm that there will be raised a flght to help the caller?

If flight are available … otherwise, ATM will try to divert another flight. (But delay before help arrive can be too long to be efficient.)