AGM-65B SOI issue
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Apologies for the lame title, I really can’t think of anything short that describes the issues I’m having with my AGM-65Bs.
First, let me say that I never had any issues with the AGM-65Ds on the Block 40/42 and 50/52 in both the Korea and Balkans theaters.
Boresighting the AGM-65Ds using the TGP worked fine for me. But I’m not sure if that’s my issue here.I’m currently flying the F-16A Block 15 Netz in the 1980’s Israel campaign, in my 1982 campaign (117 Sq out of Ramat David).
These aircraft do not have targeting pods in the campaign, being 1982 and all.When I’m using my AGM-65Bs, I’m having the following issue:
My Mavericks are all powered up, master am is ON. I lock a static ground target on my FCR in GM mode (or moving target on GMT, doesn’t matter really).
I then select my fully powered up AGM-65s on the stores page (the message Not Timed Out is no longer there).
Then I switch to the WPN page and uncage - popping the covers of the sensor.At this stage, my AGM-65s are in PRE mode with the target designated on my FCR.
The moment I pop the covers and zoom in (Exp), my AGM-65 is looking in the general direction of where the target is locked on my FCR , so far so good.
However, the moment I touch my micro-cursor (Slew) button on my TQS, the sensor in the AGM-65 just turns to some random point, looking BEHIND my plane!
It takes forever to slew the sensor back to looking at least into the direction of flight - let alone anywhere near my target. Considering that I’m using AGM-65s to pop-over hills and attack SA-6s, this behaviour is extremely unwelcome.I can repeat this very easily by selecting a different weapon or just cycling back to A-A mode and back to A-G mode. I can lock a different target, go to my AGM-65 WPN screen and sure enough, the bridge/building/landmark I’ve locked on my FCR appears in the sensor view of the AMG-65. But the moment I even touch my cursor slew button my TQS, the sensor head moves to some strange patch of land behind my plane or something.
Is there a particular thing I’m doing wrong? Why are the Mavericks behaving this one?
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Its a bug - one of several Ive complained about with mavericks to BMS. I presume its known to them (its been complained about at least once before now).
One of several reasons I dont use Mavs in 4.33.
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Its a bug - one of several Ive complained about with mavericks to BMS. I presume its known to them (its been complained about at least once before now).
One of several reasons I dont use Mavs in 4.33.
Yes we know
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Thanks for confirming that it’s a bug and I haven’t entirely lost the plot just yet.
Are there any workarounds to the issue? E.g. do we know if this is only related to the PRE mode but are VIS/BOR fine?
Also, I don’t recall having this problem at all when using AGM-65Ds in the Balkans while also using a TGP - even when I had the TGP turned OFF.
I had some issues boresighting the Mavericks so I switched my TGP to standby and used the AGM-65Ds in PRE mode using the FCR and I didn’t have any of these issues I’m having now.Is the issue related to the AGM-65Bs specifically? or doesn’t the issue appear when a TGP is carried?
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There is a small flicker of angle related to the in-built mounting error initializing suddenly with D. This is a smal-ish bug that happens once per sortie (per missile?) as the error angles are initialized on the first slew switch manipulation.
Your description of the B going completely aft is nothing I’ve ever experienced and may be a more severe situation than the more modern models.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t A and B model Mavericks not able to be slaved to sensor in reality? I thought A and B were boresight type delivery only.
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Also, correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t A and B model Mavericks not able to be slaved to sensor in reality? I thought A and B were boresight type delivery only.
Hmm… I was under the impression PRE mode was still a thing with A and B model mavs.
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There is a small flicker of angle related to the in-built mounting error initializing suddenly with D. This is a smal-ish bug that happens once per sortie (per missile?) as the error angles are initialized on the first slew switch manipulation.
Your description of the B going completely aft is nothing I’ve ever experienced and may be a more severe situation than the more modern models.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t A and B model Mavericks not able to be slaved to sensor in reality? I thought A and B were boresight type delivery only.
No, we’re not talking about being slightly off here. I’ll try to make some screenshots or record some video if I can (I don’t stream or anything so I have no idea what software to use - FRAPS only does 30 seconds in the free mode I think?).
Just to re-iterate - I designate (lock) a target in GM or GMT mode on the FCR. I then go to the AGM-65B WPN page, which is black. I then uncage the AGM-65B, the cover pops off and the video image appears.
This first image is looking generally in the right direction, it may be a few degrees off. I can zoom in (EXP) and it is fine. The moment I touch my slew cursors, the seeker head on the AGM-65B immediately changes to a different angle, which appears to be behind the jet or something. It doesn’t happen slowly either, it is pretty much instantaneous.
As I’m flying the 1980’s campaign, I only have AGM-65A and B models available to me. I’ll try the AGM-65As and see how they respond. Note that PRE mode is available on the AGM-65B in BMS. I cannot comment if this is available in real-life or not.
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Try OB Studio.
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No, we’re not talking about being slightly off here. I’ll try to make some screenshots or record some video if I can (I don’t stream or anything so I have no idea what software to use - FRAPS only does 30 seconds in the free mode I think?).
Just to re-iterate - I designate (lock) a target in GM or GMT mode on the FCR. I then go to the AGM-65B WPN page, which is black. I then uncage the AGM-65B, the cover pops off and the video image appears.
This first image is looking generally in the right direction, it may be a few degrees off. I can zoom in (EXP) and it is fine. The moment I touch my slew cursors, the seeker head on the AGM-65B immediately changes to a different angle, which appears to be behind the jet or something. It doesn’t happen slowly either, it is pretty much instantaneous.
As I’m flying the 1980’s campaign, I only have AGM-65A and B models available to me. I’ll try the AGM-65As and see how they respond. Note that PRE mode is available on the AGM-65B in BMS. I cannot comment if this is available in real-life or not.
I understand the leap and I’ve experienced it with later Mav just not to that degree. But then again I generally have Mav video rolling before I start slaving to SPI so maybe that changes the result.
TESTING
OK, test flight result Blk52 with 3/7 AGM-65B LAU-117. Designated GM FTT, uncaged missile, SOI WPN, start slewing. I think I’m seeing a new issue or at least one I haven’t noticed so far.
When slewing SPI the Maverick video moves slaved but the pointing cross doesn’t. The pointing cross remains centered in azimuth but does update to reflect elevation. When WPN SOI slews are attempted the missile jumps in video azimuth back to center matching the pointing cross azimuth. The magnitude of this jump is proportional to the difference between the FCR azimuth and the pointing cross azimuth at initial slew. This is repeatable, return to slave and generate an error between Mav video azimuth and Mav pointing cross azimuth and slew. It doesn’t matter your boresight calibration, FTT or GM scan, uncaged/black video or rolling video, first run or tenth run, etc.
What does matter is DBS1/DBS2 which allow the Mav pointing cross azimuth to update properly as Mav video slaves to SPI. NORM/EXP doesn’t. DBS1/DBS2 does. I was able to generate 180 degrees jump by GM NORM cursors over some area and then turning completely around so Mav video is slaved to that but pointing cross is still showing straight ahead. The second I slew it jumps to what the pointing cross says.
All I can suggest is ensure that your GM is in DBS1/DBS2 so that Mav cross follows what the actual video is doing or make super sure that your video azimuth is centered before you slew to minimize the jump. This naturally has horrific implications for engaging Maverick PRE via FCR GMT as DBS1/2 doesn’t exist there.
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For cross-reference:
This issue has been reported on January 16th, 2017 in this thread:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?29632-Maverick-Issue&highlight=maverick -
Bump, and…
So does this mean the community never/rarely uses Mavs? Curoius what the active, super hyper realism players are doing wrt this small “bug”. To Mav or not to Mav? If not MAV, what are reasonable substitutions.
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Calibrate your missile bore, use TGP and automatic handoff. You’ll never see it and this is the maximum preparation, least delivery workload method. Few reasons to do it differently.
The reason I haven’t seen this issue as a major deal is because even I tend to line up pretty close so even when I don’t use TGP handoff the azimuth jump is smallish. It’s irritating but not a show stopper.
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Bump, and…
So does this mean the community never/rarely uses Mavs? Curoius what the active, super hyper realism players are doing wrt this small “bug”. To Mav or not to Mav? If not MAV, what are reasonable substitutions.
Somebody just polled it. 37 for, 2 against before the thread was closed. https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?35155-Poll-Use-Mavs-or-Not-use-Mavs
I’d say the community uses Mavs based on that. How often.
With changes in how they function plus additions like JSOW, JDAM, WCM and SDB, probably somewhat less than earlier versions. Still, they make for a fun and challenging mission.
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The weps Agave listed don’t track movers, so aside from laser weps, you’re reduced to CBU or other non-guided. From my experience even without the boresighting dance (which I don’t do) the mavs are an excellent option for bandits on the move/GMT. When employing the correct mav targeting parameters (see -34) my average pk = 90%. I think some folks shy away from this weapon based on the TGP/boresight dance, which again, is optional and I don’t use. But it does enhance your standoff/target ID when you use the TGP/bs method.
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The weps Agave listed don’t track movers, so aside from laser weps, you’re reduced to CBU or other non-guided. From my experience even without the boresighting dance (which I don’t do) the mavs are an excellent option for bandits on the move/GMT. When employing the correct mav targeting parameters (see -34) my average pk = 90%. I think some folks shy away from this weapon based on the TGP/boresight dance, which again, is optional and I don’t use. But it does enhance your standoff/target ID when you use the TGP/bs method.
Stalker, don’t forget the GBU-54. It has laser track capabilty, so it’s good for movers.
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Yep……
The weps Agave listed don’t track movers, so aside from laser weps, you’re reduced to CBU or other non-guided.
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…two words - laser Maverick. If I could have anything I want in the next release, it would be those.
And thanks again to the BMS devs for answering my previous request for buddy lasing…