Physical MFD and ICP vs handtracking vs mouse only with VR
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I read about people who use physical MFD or equivalent ICP implying that they are able to use thanks memory muscle. I was wondering if that really feasible in order to understand whether or not it worth.
I also saw a video about someone using pimax hand tracking in DCS
and i wonder whether it is a better option. What are your takes on this one??? Did anyone try it on BMS?Of course the last option is keep using mouse but it far from being a good experience, it really slows you down.
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I tried once with ICP and it was working fine. Of course not as comfortable as seeing everything but it wasn’t bad. Besides that, the Pico4 headset passthrough is good enough for seeing what I do with the ICP so I can also use that by shortly getting out and then back in.
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@I-Hawk Out of curiosity, do you use VR when you find time to play?
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@williang83 Yes. I don’t really “fly” in last years, as even my fun flights are more of a “Let’s see where we stand” kind of, but the last time I tried campaign flights it was ~2 months ago and I ran ~4 missions all in VR yes. The ICP itself wasn’t part of those flights because I didn’t received it at that time, but when I tried it, it was working good enough for me “blindly”. For sure WAY better than using the mouse
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I use a numpad on a stand for icp and two MFDs. Been doing that in VR for 3 years (obviously not all in BMS), with mouse cursor follows head. I don’t need to look to use them.
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@williang83 I use multiple MFDs, A-10 UFC, plus custom button boxes (VR-only).
By using physical markers on the MFD buttons to feel what I’m hitting, and designing the button boxes with tactile cues, muscle memory gets the job done in the vast majority of cases.
I don’t use the mouse for anything in the pit at this stage, unless something flakes out for some reason.
Haven’t tried pass-through, but it makes sense that that would be the best of both worlds, if nothing important is obscured.
I have my doubts about hand tracking, but I haven’t tried it, personally.
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@williang83 I VR 100% right now with a Pimax Crystal. I have physical MFDs and ICP, button box, Saitek Switch Panel, potatoed Saitek AV8R (use the toggle switches and axis pots for cockpit stuff, former stick head as external view control), an X56 throttle for buttons and switches, and Logitech G13. Of course, the X65F HOTAS. With all this I can get pretty much almost everything in the cockpit that is needed for ramp start and general combat. I still don’t have the Aux Comm panel and a few other little things.
For the mouse usage, I have my standard gaming mouse and then a trackball placed on my left hand non-stick side so I can use it as a stationary mouse control.
Honestly with the Crystal and even having special switch covers and different shaped drawer bumpers, it’s hard to navigate everything by feel and sometimes it better to use the mouse, sometimes better for all the device buttons, switches, and knobs.
Then there is PointCTRL, like finger units that has a mini “TrackIR” sits on top of your VR headset and tracks your finger and makes it into mouse movement and clicks. Simple but very effective hand tracking. Works amazing in DCS to where I need literally none of the extra things I’ve listed besides my X65F and my “critical no looking required” switches that are on my button box. But unfortunately, not supported in BMS and most likely won’t be anytime soon
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I don’t have a ‘tactile’ ICP, but a versatile button box made for VR. Agree with @Snake122. I find myself always gravitating to the trackball rather than fumbling to the button box. (mouse on RHS, and trackball on left (I’m left handed) so I can do most things while controlling with the joystick. )
When pass through and masking matures those peripherals will come into their own in VR.
If you are going the VR route, I would hold fire on spending on those peripherals.
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I tried blindly reaching out in VR but (to me) it ruins the immersion and for BMS and DCS I run in 2D… WWI and WWII I run in VR. I’m hoping for both OpenXR and my PointCtrl order arrival (end of the year?) to happen around the same time… I was toying with the idea of a Varjo XR-4 and using it’s mixed reality as I like my ICP\MFDs but the $4k buy-in is a bit… steep.
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I finally understood what the guy has been doing in the video above. Basically he is doing, let’s say, the opposite of augmented reality. In other words instead of showing his physical PIT above the virtual cockpit, he is keeping the virtual pit visible, hiding the physical pit (which position and measure roughly matches the virtual one) and just showing his hands in order to interact with the physical commands.
I believe that’s pretty clever since not everyone will be able to put together a full physical pit that allow to completely overlay the virtual one. This allow the user to actually just place the physical commands that matches virtual one without the need of “complex” passthrough.
He is using pimax handtrack to actually just track his hands and nothing else. Aside from 3d rendering them , there is no interaction between his virtual hands and the game. I’ll be honest, between all the options i’ve seen so far this is the one i like the most. Not because having a passthrough with full pit wound’t be awesome, quite the opposite, but i know that it is out of league for many. I guess this one is a middle ground solution easier for many.
@I-Hawk … ehemm … humm … i don’t want to sound annoying but would you please consider something like this? Please !!!
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Just to add more information, the technology behind pimax handtracking in plain simply leap motion. And instead of trying to matching real world hand movement into a virtual button, this solution just use simple hand tracking (and this leap motion does pretty well) in order to translate you real world potion inside the virtual cockpit. All of this bypassing all the hassle that comes with, track, differentiate normal hand movement from actual interaction intentions and lately process specific movement into a given button/command interaction…again in my opinion this is pretty clear. It focus on what the leap motion can do better out of the box, all it is required is translate those hand/fingers position detection to player origins and render it.
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another video
Of course you can use it without having a real physic pit behind, all you gonna love is the tactile feedback. I saw someone using a plank as workaround thus limiting hands depth movement.
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@williang83
I’m just about finished with a replica cockpit and at the moment, I’m having to “feel” my way around some of the switches on the side consoles. However, once I’ve established my hand’s “location,” I can easily navigate to the switch or dial I want. The side consoles are new to me hence this issue.For my ICP, I just need to establish where it is in the space in front of me and I can quickly use it due to a little bit of muscle memory forming. If ever I get “lost,” I just re-orient myself using the bumps on the ICP’s face.
Having the correctly-shaped switch cap does help a lot with confirming that I am in the right place holding the right switch; same thing with dials/rotaries.
Is it a better option? It depends. A lot of time has been spent making the cockpit, then a lot more time has to be spent building up muscle memory. Being able to see my hands via a passthrough would be great and remove the need for the majority of muscle memory requirement or “feeling around” to get orientated in the cockpit. If you’re not a rampstart-to-shutdown kind of guy, it might be less attractive to spend this much time and resources for stuff you won’t use all the time.
At the moment, my focus is more on finishing the cockpit and then integrating other bits of my sim gear so I’ve not looked into passthrough options just yet.
